Is $20k really all my Mondial is worth?!

Some of you have followed my long running thread on the best place to sell my 88 Mondial Cab. I've had the car listed on eBay and a few other places. Currently listed again here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270986648105
I keep getting offers at $20,000 for the car. Is this really all these things are worth? I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has bought or sold a Mondial recently regarding values, as well as any strategies on selling more effectively. Thx

 

IMO 20k is wholesale if not less than wholesale for an original 88 mondial cab. Unless you have to get rid of the car I would suggest you hold out. It's hard for me to say without seeing your car in person but from your description I would think 25 would be my bottom if I were you. There does seem to be a limited number of buyers for Mondials but there are also a limited number of decent examples. I paid towards the high end of the market for my car because I knew it was worth it so I'm sure there are others out there like me looking.

 

I've owned mine for 3 years now and the market seemed to be a bit stronger when I purchased mine. The seller of mine was asking 30K with 355 wheels on it. I ended up getting the car for 23K with the original wheels, and it made him sick to his stomach to let it go for that, he was truly bewildered. He said in the year it had been on the market I was the only person to look at it, and his wife told him to take the money. It was really a no excuses car when I got it, a 2 year old service that included new distributor caps, wires, valve adjustment, shift shaft seal and basically all documentation of services since the car was new. It had 48K miles on it. He had owned it for 4 years, spent in excess of $10K on maintenance items and only driven it 2K miles in that time. I felt bad for him.

Having said that it was a used car and I put about 10K worth of updates into it when I did my service.

Worth? I feel worth is a philosophical discussion, what they are getting on the market seems to be about 20K. It's a shame, and I think the auto media is picking up on it. Last month the Mondial was included in Hemmings Sports & Exotic, this month the same mag has the 3X8 series listed.

About a year ago I needed the money more than the car but when I realized that I'd be getting about 20K for mine I decided the car was worth more to me than the $20K cash. I don't think there is another car that gives what this car does for $20K. For $20K I can justify driving the car daily and allowing it to show wear and age and eventually wear it out.

I'm no authority and it's always hard to find a good car when one is wanted. If you really need to move it, it can't be about the money, but it will hurt all of us emotionally if you have to part with a nice 3.2 for $20K.

Good luck. You may want to get involved with a high end dealer and see if they can do something for you with this car. It feels more about principle than the actual money.

Having said all this, the $20K offers are the bottom feeders, someone truly in the market and looking for this car will want to see the car before making a low ball. I never discuss price before looking at a vehicle. I think the issue is there are extremely few people who are in the market for the best Mondial. Nothing against bottom feeders, I am one.

 

When you want to sell there are few buyers. When you want to buy nobody wants to sell. I bought a gorgeous 2002 Maserati Spyder for $15k three years and enjoyed it for two years and 25k miles. It was as nice when I needed to sell it and had two offers. The former owner wanted it back ---- for $5500. An other was for $9500, reluctantly, I took it. Wish I could have kept it, circumstances didn't allow for that. So, how much would I pay to buy it back if the situation allowed? Guess I need to learn more about bottom feeding. I'm like you in that I am not going to sell the exotics I have. They are just so much more value to me than a new Camry or Ford or even a new Fiat 500. Crazy world, eh?

 

I think that the advertisement itself may be a problem. There are only four (small) photos of the car and less than half of the text discusses the condition of the vehicle.

May I, humbly, suggest that you rewrite your advertisement and state, using short, easy to read bullet points:

* Maintenance performed on the vehicle during the last 5 years.
* All mechanical issues needing attention.
* All cosmetic issues needing attention.

Next, I would provide at least 50 hi-res photos of the car. (A 100 pictures would be better!) Don't just focus on the car's plusses -- every single defect should be photographed up close and described. This will let potential buyers know that you aren't hiding anything. I would use an outside photo hosting service to house the pictures, as I don't think that eBay will allow you to publish the volume and quality of photos that you need.

I also recommend that you include PDFs of receipts of your maintenance records. (Mark out addresses and credit card numbers, obviously.)

Finally, you should shoot several videos of the vehicle and post them on YouTube. The videos should demonstrate that everything works (blinkers, horn, windows, etc.). The videos should stress the positives but also point out the negatives. You do not really have to narrate the video much -- let the car speak for itself. Go slow and easy while filming the videos. You don't want the camera jumping around so much that the viewer can't identify details. Put links to the videos within your eBay ad.


Hopefully this helps, and please don't think that I'm attacking your ad in any way.

--Jeremy

 

Look at the value of the car in parts alone and I mean major parts, we all know if you strip down a car and sell every part on it you will get more than double what the car is worth on one piece but with the Mondial even the major parts will equal 20k or more.
Think what is the value of a 3.2 drivetrain? How about the seats, the rims, the body panels the glass these are all big dollar items. The engine and transaxle alone is probably worth half of that 20k.

 

20 K: too low.

But, honestly, 25 is probably where it should be now for a nice cab like yours.

I suggest you hold out for the right buyer. Ebay bidders are bottom feeders.

 

The thing you have to remember is that buyers can ask for any amount they want. You don't have to accept and it does not mean they know what your car is worth.

Your car is almost as nice as mine , but I bought mine for $28k last year when everything was working, even the rear windows and it only had 21k miles on it. Since then, I've spent about $5k in extras and maintenance along with getting to know my car. If I can get back what I put into it, I'll be happy but then again, I don't care to sell it.

I know a guy who is a professional online seller Ron Susser, he is my parent's neighbor in Ashburn VA. Ron used to own a Mondial t.
http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.htm?id=758

If you want, he can sell it for you for a small fee. Ron sold his t for $35k 2 years ago and very familiar with these cars.

Your ad needs to be re-done. Selling anything requires some marketing know how, and if I'm honest, your ad and photos don't do this lovely car justice.
In my opinion, in today's market, your car is somewhere in the mid 20 range because of the service come due. Ferrari buyers are few, but the car will sell itself to the right buyer that comes along regardless of how well the economy is doing. Its a cash purchase and middle aged balding guys have the money and are out there, me included! LoL

 

Ferrari Market Letter and the like are for suckers who will usually pay $5k more for a car like this simply because it was listed there instead of EBay.

 

I was offered FAR more than 20K for my car WHOLESALE last year. 20K is a bottom feeder price, but if I may be candid, what have you done to establish that your car is not just another needy mondial. First, the Pope reference in your ad is misleading and some may even find it offensive. Why mention it? Leave the whole Pope thing out. Also, from your ad what I glean is that (1) your car may have a transmission problem and (2) she is due for a major.

Your explanation that the belts "feel supple" again would be a tick against your credibility, because any knowledgeable buyer willing to pay good money for your car is going to know that is BS and that the tensioner bearings are equally likely to fail at a certain point. Rather, put your service history out there. If someone calls regarding the major service, just explain your position and leave it at that.

Sometimes less is more. If I were to do your ad, I would post lots of pictures, spell out the service history, assuming it is a good one, and focus on all the things you have done to sort her over the years.

If your car is as good as you indicate cosmetically, it probably wouldn't hurt to try and enter her into some local FCA shows and try to build her provenance.

FWIW, I sold my Mondial in 4 days and I had no shortage of buyers lined up. Selling a Ferrari is not the same as selling a regular car. If you want to avoid bottom feeders, you have to (1) establish that your car is the real deal (2) put it before the right buyers; (3) be patient. Your biggest problem now is that your car now has an Ebay reputation attached to her, which may turn some of the higher end buyers off.


Given how long you have been at this, I would recommend giving it to a respected Ferrari broker or dealer and having them move it for you.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. As a former member of the brotherhood, it would be my pleasure to try and help you along.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the thoughts and insights guys, definitely several things to think about, including at a minimum re-working the ad and photos. In terms of getting the car in front of the right buyers, I'm still not sure where to find them.

 

Try attending local Cars N Coffee events, get to know car folks, and have a for sale sign on the dash. Have some patience, the right buyer will find you! Its a hard sell on a Ferrari that needs maintenance. If you can at least get the belts done, fresh oil change/air filter you'll be in a better position. I would never consider selling my car with out doing the maintenance, by doing so, you've just narrowed your buyers down considerably. my .02 cents.

 

I paid 25k for 88 3.2 21k mi in LA area...for me the key was "everything works", but it was a little rough looking for an F car; just needed a good detailing, it was something I felt i could fix; ...I would suggest fixing your gear grind issue....buying an F car is intimidating enough its not like most buyer's are going to say oh yea I can fix that, like they might about some other car.....also so far the suggestions about the ad are spot on; it doesn't need to be over done, I looked at my car after seeing a simple ad on this site . Please consider comments as constructive only not intended to be a bash on you but thought I would share because I'm in your area and the buying process is fresh in my mind I still get a kick out of telling my wife there is a Ferrari in the garage...By the way so far when people ask what I paid for the car they are amazed at what a deal I got. I think I did pretty good too; so I do think there is a market out there. Best of luck.

 

If I compare your car with mine that I just bought a couple months ago I think your car is worth more than 20K. I paid 22K for mine with much more mileage (70K) and the front seats needed redoing and many little issues to be fixed. Car is a nice driver that had been repainted that had major service done within the last year. Like other said describe your car honestly with ALL it needs and let the real buyers come.

 

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've revised the description a bit to eliminate the Papal reference and photos and put things a bit more matter-of-factly. I have tried to describe the car honestly, potential issues and all. The auction has a slideshow embedded with over 120 photos but my plan is to re-shoot the photographs this weekend, along with scans of the service history and replace the slideshow. Any additional critique is appreciated.

 

Minor, but it jumped out at me immediately. Say that you are the third owner period. Auto check says its so and that's good enough. "I believe..." is no good.

Selling anything it is often about perception and how the thing is portrayed. People are wary buying a used car and history is a big thing even subconsciously. 3 owners is fantastic for a car this old and, IMO, a selling point. Qualifying it with uncertainty hurts that message.

Same with smoking.... Either "never smoked in" or leave out. Qualifying it can almost have the opposite effect as what's intended, ironically


For offers, stay positive "open to reasonable offers above $20k". Never go negative in sales IMO... No need to

 

Excellent tips, thank you

 

That legal crap at the end of auction write up kills it for me. It screams I am hiding something and if you win the car and my opion was wrong screw you. Be less formal, I have sold many cars overseas and stateside via ebay. Ferrari's, Lamborghini's ect. Ebay is the best Classified ad period. Buyers with money seem to contact me from ebay and guys overseas as well. 3 cars have gone to Europe. I also offer to let somone out of the deal if they feel I misrepresented the car and put your cell phone number in bold in ad, not hidden in your legal disclaimer.

You seem to have a nice car. Welcome people to get it inspected or come see it or just talk to your mechanic. The car will sell itself after the auction is over. I bought my Mondial that was listed on ebay after a 30min conversation with the owner and a 10min talk with his mechanic. He ended the auction early and I wired the money. The guy had nothing to hide.

Most car guys I find are pretty staight up.

Joe Frazar

 

I bought one for 15 but it's not nearly what your car is. It isn't a 20. It's a 25 IMO. Maybe more to the right buyer. But they are hard to find.

It's a pity really. The market is crazy when it comes to the unloved Ferraris.

 

The gear grinding issue you mention will likely scare off many buyers. The only ones left want the car for nothing.

I don't think it is an Ebay thing, it is more that people shopping in the sub $30k price range are possibly stretching financially or are very cautious to the point of letting a good car go because of an unknown like a possible transmission issue.

IMO many buyers these days assume anyone selling just lost their job and have to liquidate toys. Probably not the case for many people, but still more common than a few years ago. That deflation mindset hurts every seller.

 

I'm with Jeremy... lots of photos (clear and include the undercarriage as well) and less wordy although precise and to the point.

 

And as for the pictures - - take your 3.2 to Woodley Park. You know where that is. Don't take pictures of a beautiful car - - - in an alley with piss water running down the middle, behind a building that looks like a prison - Now that's a bit like being served lobster with "sauce cockroach". Also, shoot your pictures on a cloudy day or in the shade.

BTW, your major service was merely 1000 miles ago, but in what year did Eugenio do that service? Yes, he is absolutely regarded as one of the finest techs in the world.........and that is a huge selling point, but "for transparencies" sake, a potential buyer appreciates as much "valuable" information as the seller is aware of and is able to share.

Best of luck, Hank

 

Is it just me or is the description of the down shift to 1st gear in his add a normal thing.

Quote:
"The transmission shifts smoothly up and down in all gears, but will grind when downshifting into 1st gear if the car not stopped or going very slowly."

Frankly, I never find myself downshifting to 1st gear. I believe 1st gear is non-synchronized so it needs to be accessed from a very slow or stopped position and downshifting to it might not always work anyway. Am I wrong in this? I'll have to try it and see if I'm doing it or not. 1st gear will sometimes not engage until letting the car move a few inches to get the non synchronized gear in the right place. It also should not work unless going very slow or from stopped position. It is also connected to reverse in the system making even more special and different then the rest of the gears.

Anyway, the long and short is that what you described as a problem in your add may simply be the normal operation of 1st gear.

So, experts, let us know if this is the case. Read his description of the first gear problem.
If this is normal, then you need to remove that from your add as it may be normal operation and not a fault. Or at the very least modify the wording a bit. Definitely worth discussing.

Good luck
David Govett

 

David, I'm leaning towards normal.

I've been driving standard shift cars since 1974 and was taught, and still maintain, that you never shift into 1st while the vehicle is in motion. Otherwise, "the gears will grind".

 

Excellent point Hank.

You know, this has always been a big beef for me. Often you'll see an ad stating that the "service" or "major" has been accomplished only x amount of miles ago. But the date is rarely offered. Was it a year ago? Or maybe 10 years instead? Obviously, it does make a difference and most who are seriously interested in purchasing an old Ferrari would want to know that.

:steps off soapbox: