Car design is harder than I had thought... help please

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Do you know what type of machine is used to mill the clay? Based on a little searching the Kolb Studioline seems popular.


http://www.youtube.com/user/KolbTechnology

 

Taurus mills are the ones I see the most here in SE Michigan

 

Misspelled it !
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Just what every home hobby shop needs!

 

It's time for a science fiction break ;-). What changes will significantly lower process times in the studio?

Perhaps holographic presentation of the surface, perhaps tied to a wii style controller to 'work' the data like virtual clay??

Or perhaps a 3d printer that can print out a full size clay. Some 3D printers already use dual materials, so it could do a lighter weight structure with the clay over top, and avoid the need for a buck??

Or ???

 

On Jurassic Park III we had the full size dinosaurs created as 3d models and then milled from blocks of urethane foam. Then we coated with a thin layer of clay to texture and detail.

Worked great and is pretty much defacto in the fx biz now.

We use ZBrush to sculpt digitally...works just like clay, no futzing with vertices,etc....but a holographic sculpting software would be fantastic !

 

I love the pics you are posting !

 

That stuff is already closer than you might think.The entertainment industry is driving rapid change in the visualization process,and the car companies are also working on virtual representation in 3D. It's not too far off.Holograms already exist.It's just a matter of being able to change & manipulate them in real time.It's coming!

That said......there is nothing like being able to touch & walk around a design.The visualization tools are great,but can't beat a "hard" model,IMO.

 

Glad you like them,Jerry!
I'd post more.......but security.......

 

Yes, Alias can be cumbersome for exploration. Sketching will always be the best way to explore, but one technique is to make quick proportion models and then sketch/photoshop over them. Building models in Alias is always easiest if you have a good direction from sketches or other info (scan data etc.) If you really want to do the designing in the model, at least start with a simple sketch, and then be prepared to spend a lot of time developing and refining, having really developed modeling skills will really help also.

 

I use Alias for everything, creating surfaces from scan data, from sketches, or any other info like engineering data or blueprints. In the studio workflow, Alias is typically used to create the styling data, meaning that the design is being created and refined. This data will be taken to a very high level of quality and will be used to create realistic prototypes and show cars. Mathematically, this data is the same as Catia data and can be used for developing production or prototype tooling etc. Generally, after the car is designed and refined (once or twice or three times), if the car is moving forward towards production, for instance, then the data will go into Catia (or other) where further refinement and the implementation of engineering information will take the design through many more development stages. In other situations, like part development, the Alias data may be used all the way to tooling, even if the data gets moved into another software. Since Alias is mostly found in design studios, as soon as the data leaves the studio it ends up in some other software even if the supplier, or whoever, doesn't manipulate the data at all. Wheels are a good example of something that can be developed all the way to production tooling in Alias, but generally only the styling side of the wheel will be used as the back side requires pocketing for lightness while retaining structural integrity, which are things done by the wheel manufacturer. There are a ton of production wheels on the road that were tooled directly from Alias data.

 

Modo sounds similar to Maya, do you have any experience with Maya? Comparisons?

 

Alias is a very complex program. Automotive surface is a very complex subject. To really learn the software would take a long time. Understanding automotive form in 3D takes even longer.
I would say that someone who spends 5 years in a studio doing Alias full time could be pretty good. One thing that is very important is having people to tell you what is good and bad. This will really help in developing refinement skills. Someone outside of a studio environment could learn the software but not understand how to make cars look right, and then look better etc.
Having a design background and working on clay models are two things that can really help.
If someone is learning on their own and wants to make automotive data, I would recommend starting with wheels. They are good for learning the tools but they tend to not be too complex. If you want to make a car, first try copying an existing car. Use photographs as reference and get all the technical details like length and width. Start with a simple car and you will find out how complex it can be

 

exactly! good advice

+1

 

I've only used the demo version of Maya and that was before Modo was created. Maya is a full blown modeling and animation product whereas Modo has concentrated on modeling and only recently added rigging/IK to its tools. I have a friend who works for Pixar and he uses several programs to get what he wants, mostly proprietary software written for Pixar, but he does use Modo for some modeling and UV mapping. From the comments made on the Modo forum from users of Maya, Modo does some things better(easier) than Maya while some prefer Maya.

 

What is that publication in white, the one you seem to have so many of? I can't quite make out the title.

Thank you.

 

Those are Car Styling. It was published in Japan. They were usually able to have great photo documentation of the design development process with sketches, renderings and clay models. Typically short on words. The funniest articles were those that were written in English then translated to Japanese then translated back to English. At one time I had the issue with the 4 Rotor Covette - everyone wanted that issue as it had spectacular exterior work by Jerry Palmer and the interior by Jim Orr.

The other smaller group is of Style Auto. This was an Italian magazine that died around 1973. They also had studio development work but regularly also dealt with the process to manufacturing. They also did a great series on the GT-40 and Mk IV development and racing development.

Jeff

 

Do you have the issue with the MK IV development? Napolis would love to see if that, I think, if he doesn't already have a copy.

Thanks for the quick response! Is Car Styling still being published?

 

I do believe that Jim already has the information. Style Auto followed the series of articles with a book of the collected material. My copies of the individual issues are on loan to a friend that has a GT-40 in the area.

Car Styling is no more but issues are available from Kaneko Enterprises. He was the US distributor.
http://www.carstylingmag.com/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=6


Jeff

 

Thank you! Any favourite issues/stories in Car Styling? I will poke around a few libraries first, then give Kaneko Enterprises a shout.

 

Probably look for developments on GM cars up through Chcuck Jordan's reign. Apparently he was very liberal about allowing all the process including developmental clays to be pictured. Generally forget about words except for captions - what you see tells a lot more about what really happened than some self serving write-up will. Look at the photos - they inform on what battles were won and lost. Those same photos let you understand if the people with the real power to decide have the correct tallents to have those positions.

From eons and eons ago I offer up this story at Chrysler. At that time the design operation was still in Hamtramak (near downtown Detroit and well before the move to Auburn Hills). There were 2 exterior studios called wings. Each wing had about 1/2 the car and truck line. One wing had small(er) and international. The wing I was in had mid size, large and truck.

Everyone in a wing knew when a management review of the clay was coming. The day before the word was put out that it was going to happen and make sure all the stuff was back in the cubicle and off the modeling floor. Also part of this was that when the group was on the floor stay away from them, stay around the cubicles and be generally quiet.

So when the time came this mass of people would descend upon the clay models. There were VPs, and managers and who knows what. I remember it as being on the order of maybe 15-20 people milling around. The Design studio manager would be over in the group actually at the important place. Then there was the VP of design and VP product planning. The real decision was right there. The rest of the masses were wandering around aimlessly looking at the clay in question and anything else out on the modeling floor but not part of the real decisions. All six of the designer that actually working on the design in question were sitting in the cubicle waiting to find out if they got lucky with any good decisions. The clay modelers were in the same boat just in a different corner of the wing waiting to find out what to do next.

From that same period there were photo boards of the full size car that was finishing up development. Everyone of the 6 on the boards in the cubicle knew the car was a turd. They had done the best possible based upon the decisions made by thos with the ability to make those decisions. I remember talking to one of the 6 about it being a turd and he showed me the photo boards documenting the significant clay proposals. There were some good proposals along the way. What had happened was that every time there was an opportunity to make a good choice "management" opted not to.

Moral: Study those photos in Car Styling and make your own decisions on if the right path was taken. Did they skip something that had promise?

Jeff

 

Great story & a good question

 

Ola Stenegard. Some time around 1998. If you find anything, send me a message as this thread may get lost.