Car design is harder than I had thought... help please

Can't say that I heard of that individual,but I certainly haven't met everyone in the biz!
Art Center has a list of Alumni. I'll try to look him/her(?) up.
For anyone interested,the latest issue of Autoweek has several interviews with the heads of Design for Ferrari,Mr.Pagani,and Paolo Pininfarina,along with an article on the College for Creative Studies in Detroit.

 

I have not heard of him either. I checked the ACCD alumi site and he is listed but with no past or current info.

 

Thanks, guys. Fchat is amazing!

Kind of sad cars with his style never made it (at least yet). I would post a photo, but even though the model was in the student gallery, mass distribution might be frowned upon.

Every once in a while, I think about starting over and finishing up a degree at ACCD. Then again, who would want a 45 year old junior vehicle stylist?

 

great thread, please more guys!

i, like most adolescent adult men, dreamed of designing cars, in particular one for my own (which i still intend to) ....i'd love to transfer my sketches into a digital realm, which i'm looking at now (following some suggestions made here) ...a smaller scale clay model would be great too

if not able to get the clay mentioned "chavant" in last page here, i don't know, is it a clay that needs to be kept moist/covered? what is a good alternative?

thanks

 

The clay does NOT need to be kept wet/moist.Heat is what makes it soft and malleable.At room temp it hardens up,and is workable with the proper clay tools. The other brand besides Chavant the OEM's use is TecClay.
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thanks John ....i'm going to look into what can be gotten locally ....for my use, one box would probably do it, for 1 or 2 @ 1/8 size personal project

a couple more questions if you don't mind

what kind of shelf life do these clays have (unused in box)?

how durable is the finished / dried clay? ...i mean does it hold together well, either left bare or painted over, once dry?

i took note that the large clay models are covered with a wrap / vinyl it appears ....can they be painted with conventional primer & enamel spray?

thanks

 

Go to chavant.com They have an assortment of information on the various clays, clay tools and instructional videos. There is also discussion on DiNoc which is the paint film. They list sources where it can be bought in their pdf brochure.

The clay model will be stable for years after you are finished. There is no drying just cooling so it is no longer easily mallable.

Jeff

 

good advice ....i just happen to be reading sites on them
http://chavant.com/new_site/index.htm
http://www.kolb-technology.com/en/tutorials.html
http://www.claymodellers.claysculptors.com/2006/07/02/kolb-tecclay-sulphur-free/
http://www.productdesignforums.com/topic/10114-where-can-you-get-blue-foam/

because i'm looking at 1/8 scale, is why i ask about painting vs 3M wrap ....is that possible?

 

You should be able to correctly read all the surfaces with the clay nicely "slicked". That will be a good shiny surface - rub some water over it to make it glisten a bit more. Put black Dinoc of even black photo tape for the glass areas and affix colored pieces for the lights.

If you use a foam buck then you can bring the buck much closer to the final expecte surface and put less clay on. Shold you find that you are hitting the clay because of some design aspect then a knife will cut the foam and then add more clay in that area. Multiple appications of clay will not be a problem. Do keep the clay clean and free of crub like discarded foam of other buck material. It is real infuriating to be working a surface and hit crud that will then drag through the clay or bounce your tool and thereby cause a new surface error.

Jeff

 

yes, good advice, i have some art sculpting experience, but not with this kind of product though ....i was looking at painting more so as a final finish for display purposes, once my model is exactly the way i want it ...looking at some of the school models in pictures, the finish is glossy, i thought they must be painted?! just not sure if the dry clay surface can take primer? ....if so, i'd like to also

 

I would recommend that you look at larger sizes; more like 1/5th. The smaller the model the harder it is to work sublties and transitioning surfaces.

For full presentation you can do the clay then make a fiberglass model. To the fiberglass you can do full painting with clear coats and buffing. If you want to getting real enthusiastic then make it with a see through upper.

A challenge you are going face/work through is getting left/right symetry.

Jeff

 

good advice

additional great advice

both paint and di-noc will work,but paint will last longer with relatively little upkeep

 

your right of course, i'm thinking about space for after done, 1/8 @ 24"L ....but 1/5 @ 36"L isn't that much more
that is more complexity, i have a few tools, and more to get before starting ...i'm also contemplated building the 1/2 models, backed by a flat mirror (for a full model appearance)
there are a few vids on the klob site about making, and some more on youtube i found ...so i'm in data gathering mode
i'm sure there a bunch of questions that i'll encounter once started
thanks again jeff and john

 

As tempting as it may be to do the 1/2 car with the mirror do not do it. It will not yield a true view of the proportions. When it is used in the studio it is most likely to evaluate A and B alternatives to a common underlying design. After the selection then both sides get modeled the same.

Spend time looking at the tool selection portion of the Chavant catalogue. John can really give some better advice here because he was at one time a modeler but I would say make sure to get a planer. It will knock out some basic surface areas fast. Then go in with the rake and round end tools. You will also need stiff and flexible steels and then finally a slick. It has been a long time since I touched clay but the memories never go away.

Jeff

 

okay, that makes sense ...definetly i'll be acquiring more tools, once i'm set up to go

 

If you can at all afford the space & the size,I would definitely do at LEAST a 1/5 if not a 1//4 scale model.The smaller scales just won't let you do the kind of surface development that you need to earn.But,if 1/8 is the most you can do,that's better than nothing.

Attached is a 1/5 scale model one of the students was working on last semester.
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i was guessing at the scale to use, but 1/5 is better for sure ...it looks like that is the typical scale used in your classes/industry?

i need to practise more on digital renderings, i'm a paper drawer now ...so i probably will only do a clay model once i have extensively reworked and refined my particular concept to a final design ....is that pretty typical too? or are multiple models of the same design done as part of the process?

 

Nothing wrong with working on paper to start with.But yes,eventually digital is probably the way to go.
One scale model is what is used for the school projects.However,in the OEM design studios they will usually generate several scale models,then narrow those down to 1 or 2,and then go full size.But every company and project doesn't always use the exact same process.The Cadillac CTS project generated 11 scale models,5 full size,then narrowed those down to one.Other projects,no scale models are done,just full size work.

 

makes sense, the big auto has big $ for the design dept, vs schools ....i see rendering as extension of my manual drawing, perhaps that's wrong, but i think of the digital programs as being another drawing tool ....i have yet to get a stylis (or similar) and start doing that, then again i'm completely self taught ...i probably would rank my abilities as good/decent, there are some amazing artist talent out there ...i linked to a couple my drawings for reference only (only few i have to post) so hopefully i'm not being unrealistic in my ambitions
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140261831&postcount=16
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140708102&postcount=155
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140708128&postcount=156
no pics of my concept drawings/sketches, but my next problem would be trying to figure out which one i like best, worth making a model of at least

 

Your work is very good.The Dino is very cool!And yes the digital realm is indeed just another tool.It's the idea that is important,not how you rendered it.
Now just do a new design

 

thanks John ...thanks to you & Jeff for your time, and Bounce for this thread, it holds significant value for we amateurs, who though not in the industry, not bound to be, can learns some skills to express our creative design desire, it is much appreciated
yes, i have a ton of concepts sketching, just none scanned in, to post .....hey Bounce, i hope you don't think me barging in, this is just a fascinating thread to me ....i'd love to see others post up concept designs they have (i'll hold off doing so, to be polite to the OP) ....thanks again John, i'm sure you have your fill of 'teaching' in a typical day LOL

 

No problem.Glad to give my $.02.
Design is so much fun!

 

Studios have time and resources that is not available in school. First, in schoold the student is doing his model and his drawing. Since the student wants to be a designer rather than a modeler the model is usually short changed in effort. The effort on modeling is more likely to be considered drudgery.

In the studio there are highly experienced modelers that really know what they are doing. How to efficiently approach the process and then know how to properly resolves surfaces without dithering endlessly trying to get it right.

Pre-digital the design development was with paper. Some spectacular designs for a lot of decades happened successfully this way. A lot of the Italian designs that we love so much seem to have mysteriously transformed from some pretty flakey drawings/renderings into spectacular 3D forms.

Jeff

 

hm, i never thought of it like that ...i always presummed the one designer (or small team) did the step in sequence: product description, drawings, full scale drawings, models, final full scale model

speaking of the italian (and other) legends, after the initial design sketches, there was a lot of interpretation left to the actual body maker i think, like Scaglietti for example

 

Just dawns on me - 5 full size clays! I gather all being done simultaneously so that means a huge amount of physical space. All in one studio area? Was it one of the old traditional small studios or what? Did the 5 include the variants like the SRX, wagon and coupe?

1st generation CTS or 2nd?

Since we are on the CTS topic, how much was driven by Lutz and how much was he doing to keep all the useless design intruders away from the process?

Jeff