360 F1 cluch wear 85%: should I change clutch?

Car currently at a work shop in Sweden for major service (18750 miles-30000 km) + belt change due to the 3 yearly intervals.

Car is on the first clutch, not slipping (so far so good).

Feedback from work shop today: wear was measured to be approx. 85%, by checking the gear box.

It is big distance for me to the workshop > 500 miles (approx. 13 hrs. driving if I follow the speed limit on the road). I experience one alarm on the F1 gear box when I was driving to the workshop, alarm occurred when car was stationary after a short break when I put ignition on but disappear when I start the car.

I also checked the clutch wear for 4 years ago, indication was then a wear close to 75-80%, car has been used for approx. 7000 miles since then (but I have read a lot of treads in this forum "how to prolong clutch life"). (My previous 355 need a new clutch after 12000 miles.

Would you recommend me to change the clutch at this wear reading? Or is it possible to get more miles from it? (Not driving the car at any track).
Clutch change cost approx. 7200$

Have a nice day

Best Regards from Jostein

 

keeping on driving with a worn out clutch can cause damage to other mechanical parts, therefore I would... My Ferrari dealer always told me that clutch should be replaced after 60-65% wear even if it does not slip too much yet, to avoid other problems.
Hope this helps.

 

At 60-70% wear, yes i agree with this statement. If the clutch is at 85% the flywheel will very likely need replacing anyway. I personally would never replace a clutch without AT LEAST replaceing the seals in the slave anyway, they are problematic and even slight sticking will cause poor initial set-up, which in turn shortens clutch life. Also bear in mind that the clutch wear figure is simply an extrapolation of two figures; point a=clutch thickness when new, versus point b=PIS. Seeing as many are poorly set up when installed, this figure is a rough guide, at best. For example, early TCU software cars have no variable PIS, so to get the clutch to last longer many tamper with the initial clutch thickness index to get it to bite earlier and create less heat, and therefore less wear. The upshot of this is that the clutch wear reading is a total lie. Here's an example; If your clutch was REALLY worn 100%, then it wouldn't drive, right? Well i've seen clutch wear readings as high as 105% before they drop out of gear, clearly because of either poor setup, a new clutch fitted to a worn flywheel (very common)or to compensate for the poor software in the early TCU's. While the wear reading is a good indicator, there are other ways to detect clutch wear. Bite point is an obvious one: if the car pulls off at over 1800 rpm before clutch is fully back on it indicates wear, or that the PIS is set too high. If it's been driven for any length of time with the PIS too high wear will occur at an accelerated rate. Then there are the other common ones...clutch overheat buzzer, crawling in gear because PIS has been wound low to compensate for clutch wear, Dropping out of gear, and slow changes, even in sport mode. What i'm saying here, is if it TRUELY is 80-odd percent worn, it'll need a flywheel at best. I'd drive it until it starts popping out of gear and get your money's worth. If you do go ahead and get the clutch done, make sure they at least inspect the flywheel properely and refresh the cylinder seals.

 

1. Does anyone else think $7200 sounds high for a 360 clutch job?
(not used them, no affiliation) Ferrari Ft Lauderdale has an advertised service price for a 360 clutch at $3785. http://www.ferrarifl.com/vintage.php

2. I "will" drive until the clutch slips, or on the 430 until its starts forcing me to "N" (have not used up a 430 clutch yet). *Note: Ricambi shows a flywheel at $2000! A bit more than my Porsche replacement flywheels by a long shot. So as RustyBits says you do risk damaging your flywheel at some point (not sure why this has not been engineered out of the equation).

3. I say "will" in (2) because I have never used up a clutch in my life. I dont flip cars, I usually keep a car / motorcycle for life or until its totaled or something. Maybe I am just clutch friendly. This includes years of professional motorcycle racing. Maybe I am just lucky.

 

I sure hope that $7200 is high and I like the $3785 price I think the average clutch job should near $5,000 by the time you do all the "might as well do it now" things. But for the original poster remember that he is in Norway, their pricing could be different and the exchange rate changes daily so $7200 could be a good price.

 

I dont know...sounds a little like apples vs. oranges.

The $3,795.00 is the service portion only. Add a premium for purchasing parts from an F dealer, and I suspect you are up in the $5K to $5.5K range (I have a 3 pedal so Im making a bit of a guess here on the total...my cert F mechanic charges $4,200.00 all in!). Then factor in the notion it would be like living in Orlando and travelling to Washington DC as your closest Ferrari dealer, and I suspect that they can charge a little bit of a premium for their services. You dont like the price? Travel another 500miles...

 

I just dont understand your logic or point here. Please elaborate?

The advertised price of $3795 is for a clutch replacement on a 360 at a Ferrari dealer service department. Why would you add a "premium for purchasing parts from an F dealer"? I might agree that this is the "base" price and that if you opt for replacing additional parts while you are "in there", or have to replace the flywheel because the clutch was so worn it was damaged. But the base price should be the actual price minus tax for the median of customers. Or maybe I misunderstand their marketing and sales tactics (possible)

 

You are so far away from service I would change it now and save another trip in the not too distant future. I was told after the clutch gets past the 50% level it wears out progressively faster.

 

My interpretation of the offering was that it is the pricing but not parts incld. My bad if that isnt the case and its an all in price. Seems really reasonable if that is the case.

 

My F1 clutch was recently measured at 85% worn after issues with being unable to engage reverse. I don't think the 85% is accurate because I have had no issues with foward gear shifts. Reverse is still an issue after hard driving. I will wait until it slips into neutral to get the clutch replaced. Around 5K, I was told.

Nate

 

I consider the price to be high compare to what you pay in US, but the car is not in a work shop in Norway but in Sweden. I ask for a price for a couple of years ago in Norway and it was significantly higher, but include a new flywheel , but the price in Sweden include a
machining of the flywheel.

They are also changing all parts which can be worn in addition to the clutch if they repalace the clutch.

I got feedback after I post the thread yesterday that I also have to replace the 3 bolt "starter ring" to a 6 bolt type, add another 900 $ to the bill... but wokshop offer me a 10% discount if I do the work now.

 

I have no issues with any gear forward or reverse yet, the reason why I consider it now is also the long distance as one other mentioned to the work shop.

 

Thanks for a comprehensive feedback, car is a 2001 and have most likely the early TCU, but it is the first clutch, which mean that the reading are based on a factory installation/set up.

 

Yes that is one of my main concern.

I purhaced the car for a bit more than 4 years ago, prior to that I own a 355 F1 spider for approx 4 years. I got clutch issues with the 355 (on a much lower milage) and when I was at the work shop first time with my 360 (4 years ago) I ask them to measured the clutch wear. I am quite sure that the result was 78 % and the reading now 4 years later is 85 % ( I drive the car approx 7000 miles driving during that period)- Not much, but have been working a lot abroad ,and weather in Norway is not the same as in US ( lot of rain during the last summer seasons

 

What is the problem? +$5k for a clutch change?
After you can drive for miles without any problems. And what if it breakes down (in the middle of nowhere???) you leave it?

Mind you, you are driving a +$100k car and don't want to spend but take risk? I really don't understand but hey I had a 328 for 50.000 miles and had a bill of Euro5000,- each year for 6 years. It never broke down because I spend what was needed (not over spend by the way).
I am happy to pay the bill of the F430, different world to me these days.

 

I believe you have misunderstand a bit, I have not any big issue with the bill even if it ends with 7,5k$, but if I can wait a couple of years and change it then it would even have been better. ( after all the clutch wear was 78% for 4 years ago and 85% now)

I am aware of the cost of the car and services, and the cars are significantly more expensive in Norway than in US, and I paid approx $250k for a bit more than 4 years ago and today price has dropped to approx $170.

 

I am also concern about other possible problem and that is my main reason for starting the thread.

So far my 360 even with the 85% reading has not dropped out of gear, not any buzzer alarm etc. But it is a rather costly repair and I dont want to change it if it is not neccessarry, but on the other hand I dont want to take a big risk for other mechanichal damage either.

The good thing if I change it together with a belt change and major service is the fact that the car should be almost like new, and it looks almost like new.
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Might as well change it now than later. Why let something break first? You're going to have to do it eventually.
It might start to slip in a week or a year. Either way, you are going to replace the clutch so why not now before things start to go bad or break?

Just my .02

 

If Ferrari recommend changing clutch after 50% wear then they should change the calculation method so it reads 100% at 50% !!
IMO I'd carry on driving it, unlikely the clutch will suddenly fail and strand you - it will just get progressively worse.
Full clutch change in UK is £1500 - $7500 sounds very steep, my garage would fly out to you and do it cheaper for you

 

Houston: We have found intelligent life.

I will give that a big +1!

...where does the madness end? Better change it a 49% as not to be too close to 50%. Well to be real safe, better change it at 45%. Why not at every oil change?

 

lol, of course your Ferrari dealer told you that you need to change your clutch at 60% wear...

 

Thanks for all advices and feedback.

I decided to change the clutch since the car is at the work shop and the fact that I eventually have to do it.

If it havent been for the fact that it is 13 Hrs driving to the work shop, then I would have been waiting into it start slip, or dropping into neutral as most of you reccomended.

Have a nice day

Best Regards from Jostein

 

You also don't know if you can trust that reading. What I mean is, if it was not reset at last change all bets are off as far as that being an accurate number. I have seen it before.

Before you bought that car, the last owner could have put a new clutch in it right before offering the sale. Using an independent repair facility which may not have access to an SD2/3 had no way of resetting it. New clutch.....60% worn. If the CPS was not zeroed out, then the measurement the ECU uses is incorrect.

Good choice to have the clutch done.

I always say that the first time the car drops out of gear, it's a warning. That flywheel ain't cheap.

 

^^^^ any F1 without a TCU reset would have not been shifting right. no one in the right mind would leave out the reset after a f1 clutch job.

 

Would you like me to start naming people who would likely not reset the PIS after a clutch job if it would save them $29.95? Clue will giv thy not wite legably times some nd dote kare.