Inherited a unique Porsche and need some advice

Call Gunnar Racing (http://www.gunnarracing.com/). Kevin Jeanette knows more about Porsches than just about anyone in FL, I would think.

You might also contact John Starkey (http://johnstarkeycars.com). He ought to be able to give you some thoughts.

CW

 

Brumos Porsche in Jacksonville is a great source.

 

If it's not too expensive to get it running I would do that. To me, they are always worth more running than not. I think the value is in the motor & trans. I've seen the Ruf trans listed for +/- $10K.

 

you might try Stashus:

800 West State Road 434 Longwood, FL 32750
(407) 331-0930

 

Sorry to hear about your father, Mike!



I'm no help, but good luck, that's a great looking car!

 

You might want to contact Red Bone or Zotz. One of the best racing shops is Alex Job but I doubt they work on outside cars. Who knows...could be worth a call anyway!

KevFla

 

That's quite a car.

My condolescences to you on the passing of your father. I think he's left you quite a diamond in the rough. I come from a Porsche background and I've spent the last couple of decades encountering similar "project" cars -- few look anywhere near as appealing as this car at the "20 foot" resolution and the engine compartment shows evidence of considerable planning and effort rather than the usual budget-shrinking catastrophes common underneath an expensive body "kit" and paint. The cabin shows some expensive decisions and it clearly shows the miles of the last two or more decades. For most enthusiasts, the cabin is a daunting proposition because the skills and interests of most enthusiasts lie in the power train, suspension and any aspect of the car that goes to performance -- the upholstery and trim tend to be just a matter of time and expense to shop around paying for parts and paying for experts to do things that the average handy enthusiast doesn't have the equipment or experience to handle.

So that's a very quick three part harmony on the car -- the powertrain is appealing, the body kit is interesting and the cabin is a turn-off.

I'd need some details on engine, transmission, suspension, chassis, brakes, steering, fuel system, emissions compliance, registration history to delve further into how to consider the whole car.

Hopefully you'll have the typical "box of receipts" from the specialist work in the engine -- usually these engines need custom heads and other engine fortifications unless it started from a Porsche Turbo engine and trans, but the "Ruf" suggestion is a little peculiar, maybe it came from a dead Ruf or the like being copied, the kevlar clutch doesn't mean much unless there's something unique to the transaxle build (multiplate clutch, race built gear set, added cooling, stronger axles.)

Looking at things like the firewall insulation hanging down, the clearance creases in the intake tubes to clear the hood hinges and the general "unorthodox" appearance of the engine, i'd be very cautious about the next time this engine is started. Fuel pressure and metering can make these engines temperamental (and run damn hot.) So you'd want it in experienced handles of the initial work just to be sure no simple slip-up creates a big problem. Rust in the lines, the fuel tank, a dry oil line or a collapsed filter. Each is easily R&R'd before the next start-up, but can cause considerable work -- rust in a fuel line can take out the fuel pumps (by the sound of it, that's already happened) and require a fuel distributor or injection system rebuild (depending upon the design of the engine.) These might seem expensive, but they're far cheaper than a cylinder leaning out and then taking out the whole engine.

The body kit looks exceptionally good -- well constructed, clean lines, "correct" proportions and interesting detail touches that can take hundreds of hours to get right, especially around the wheels, doors, fit lines, the lights and integration to the underlying '77 metal. You're going to have to find the market for this body kit.

The cabin is one of the things that could cost anything from a few thousand to perhaps over ten thousand to really get it together. Gauges, electrics, routing of wiring, fuel lines, functional accessories ... each line item can be a few dollars for a tidy up and some attention or hundreds of dollars for an instrument to be replaced or repaired and re-calibrated by a specialist. Those old 100-way electric seats are almost certainly more trouble than they're worth, also heavier and larger than need be. It you published a hundred or so photos to Picasa with some detail shots, close-ups and wide perspective shots, it's possible to get a feel for the level of effort commensurate with the objectives for the whole car. Certainly a few hundred dollars to attend to the ravages of time goes a long, long way to resale value and just getting the attention of buyers who opt-out of cars that look like they need too much work in the cabin -- it also goes a long way to prejudice of "body kit" cars and the general silliness of a $5000 car made to resemble a $500,000 car. Presentation of the cabin goes a long way to overcoming prejudices.

I'd start with finding the body kit maker and the body shop that did the conversion installation. Once you identify the particular body kit, you can work within that circle of enthusiasts to find the market for this car. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People already interested in this kind of conversion (words like clone and replica or replicar tend to bring their own prejudices and interpretations or intended meanings) will look past the body kit itself and perhaps be quite impressed by the engineering, planning and execution.

I think most of the value of the car will surface in the engine, transaxle, suspension, brakes, etc. After all, this is probably a 2800 lb car with at least 280 hp and perhaps as much as the 560 or more claimed -- that's a helluva handful no matter how sophisticated the suspension, steering and brakes. Even if it was updated to coil-overs with two- or three-way adjustable dampers and sways with updated brakes and the steering is perfect, it's still a lot of 911 just in terms of power-to-weight.

Where to start: documentation. Find receipts from somewhere. Ask friends and Porsche cohorts of your father to track down where money was spent on this car. I'd suggest taking a lot of good photos -- sharp focus, flash to bring out the details, every square inch inside, every joint outside, every angle underneath from front to back.

I'd publish all those to a photo sharing site like picasa (because it's free and doesn't impose bandwidth limits or file size limits if you get a lot of people browsing.)

I'd canvas the appropriate forum sites
forums.rennlist.com
forums.pelicanparts.com
pistonheads.com/gassing

Just one photo, a subject line like "Please help identify this engine and 959 body conversion with 600hp turbo on 1977 911 SC" and see what comes of it. Just skip/delete all the usual banter and self-appointed judges that insist upon commenting on these sort of threads. I'm sure you'll find useful clues to help you along the way. : )

It's an interesting car and well worth the endeavor to see it find its next owner.

 

Very cool project. I sure hope that you can keep it and get it running.

I wish I had something that neat to inherit! (Dad's not into cars or toys)

 

The wheels alone are worth a lot. Very rare, especially in those sizes and offsets. Negative offset versions of those wheels rarely come on the market, let alone in porsche specs.

I would say fix it up and drive it.

 

If you can't afford to spend a lot, don't spend anything. Just market it as is. This will save you money, and even more importantly, time. Finally, it will prevent a mechanic from screwing things up, which you will end up paying for. You want to sell it, so sell it. Let an enthusiast take it, spend the time, effort and money to fix it, and benefit from the added value.

Suppose it's worth $20,000 stock. With your father's mods, let's say it went up to $40,000. So, you could sell it now for 15-20. Or, you could spend 15k, and get to 40. Maybe. Remember, people want a good deal.

So, one way, you are getting 15, the other way you are getting 40-15=25, if you can find the person with the money and if the car does not self destruct in the process, and even then this is all if it can happen within the next four to six months as opposed to a coupe of years sitting in some shop, taken apart.

Market it now, as is, for a good price. Let someone else deal with the many, many headaches of chasing down parts and good mechanics and chasing details and dealing with the risk of it blowing up. You will make your money. They will make theirs. If it doesn't sell, you will always have the option of going down the painful route of getting it running. I think you will find it easier to sell at the lower price to an enthusiast who wants to fix it up. I don't think you do. I think you just want to sell it.

Good luck either way. Nice car, and sorry to hear about your father. Cool guy, to have a car like that.

 

I agree.

There is also Kevin Wheeler:
http://www.kmwmotorsports.com/

Phil at Klub Sport:
http://www.klubsportracing.com/

 

looks like a nice build. post on the Pelican parts 911 technical forum. it's a hard core 911 forum and a lot of folks are in your area.

 

by coincidence there is an active thread on Pelican on another 959 replica for sale. difference on that one to your's is it is based ona euro 930 chasis.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/681421-value-1-off-959-conversion.html

 

There you go. Concours condition is estimated to be worth between $30-40k. How much would it take to get yours up to that? Probably $20k. That puts yours at $15-20k. Sell it as is. You won't make any more money by fixing it up, and it will save you all the headache of the project. Plus, it will give someone else an opportunity to fix it up as much or as little as they want.

Look into how much the fuel pumps will cost installed. If it's more than $2,000, leave it alone.
I would do only basic stuff in the interior...basic cleaning and shampoo--something that won't take more than an afternoon.
The brakes--I would bleed the system. That should take care of the softness. If it doesn't, leave it alone.

That's it. Just advertise it on a few Porsche forums, with a lot of detail.

 

First, condolences on your father's passing. Sounds like he was a interesting car guy.

On this car, it depends whether it has sentimental value to you, or whether you're viewing it simply as a car. Financially, you'd probably do best to sell it for parts value. I think you'll be upside down pretty quickly if you start with the interior, put the mechanicals in order, etc.

It's not economically viable to put it back to a correct 911 body at this point -- '77's aren't all that collectible yet, except for the 930s.

 

Mike,

What did you decide to do?

KevFla

 

So are you going to keep it?

 

I remember Getty Design was showing their 959 body kit for early 911s around 25 years ago.

I am wondering if this is what you have. If so, it really was a top notch execution.

I hope you continue to enjoy the car in good health.