Finally Got my baby home!! Not all fun and games though..... | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Finally Got my baby home!! Not all fun and games though.....

Discussion in '360/430' started by up4speed, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    Don't mean to bust your balls, but verbal agreements are legal and enforceable.

    Kai
     
  2. Spider360Matt

    Spider360Matt Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    595
    California
    Verbal agreements are pretty weak. Not only is it a difficult type of contract to enforce, but this will almost always have misalignment - even the most simple has my interpretation and yours. Have you ever seen that cartoon that describes the tire swing? And thats with documentation...

    http://www.businessballs.com/treeswing.htm

    If I have to bet my balls on an agreement that I care anything about, its gonna be written...love how the hyperlink was tailored for the comment.

     
  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    See what the dealer does with this case. The issue as discussed here was a posting BEFORE the stealership had an opportunity to make right.

    As above, I imagine technically they are but good luck proving it. Recordings without the other parties consent when made.. and I'm not a lawyer here.. may not be admissible. By this reasoning alone many, many men are in trouble with many women after things that have been said after a few beers. e.g. "of course I'll respect you in the morning"
     
  4. Spider360Matt

    Spider360Matt Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    595
    California
    and the one liner the following morning... " I never do this..." hmmm. ;)
     
  5. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
    424
    When are people going to learn NOT to buy from Florida.

    LOL
     
  6. Zinger

    Zinger Formula 3

    Apr 11, 2009
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    Ryan M
    HA HA for real!

    It seems we do hear A LOT of stories from Florida................................
     
  7. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    1,581
    Greenwich, CT
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    Matthew & Kristen V.
    #107 MVDESQ, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2012
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    I think there were a lot of facts that were lost through the post. Our communication wasn't verbal only. I have emails reminding him of details that he assured me would get done. Also while at the dealership I have work order slips that were signed, stating everything that they owed me. I got burnt the first time I tried to buy the Ferrari in North Carolina, so I made sure everything was covered. None of that matters because I did a risk assessment before I left and realize that in a worst case scenario, I'm looking at a little trouble and maybe $1,000 at Ferrari prices. Not the end of the world. I was counting on them following through with their promises Even though I protected myself leading to the purchase, I did that to make sure I didn't waste a trip down, and made sure all the important things were done prior to leaving Florida. I didn't do it to protect myself afterwards. What am I going to do, go to Florida to sue them for $1,000? That's not going to happen. What will happen though is that I will let everyone know about my experience, whether it's positive or negative. By the way remember yesterday's conversation when he said "I'll call you tomorrow". I'm still waiting for a call....I'm taking the car to Ferrari of LI tomorrow, for the paint correction. I'll worry about what FoPB will do for me afterwards. I just want it fixed, it's pretty bad. A lot worse than it looks in the photo that I posted of the hood.
     
  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Hey I bought mine from a sleezy used exotic dealer.. I EXPECTED a lemon and turns out it's pretty good car in the end! Key is I assumed/didn't care what they said about the car, my "PPI" told me what to really expect. I priced it in and have been VERY happy. :)
     
  10. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296

    Well put. I wouldn't waste my time going to small claims court either. And so what even if you win (which you should) they are probably not going to pay anyways. This forum allows interested parties to discuss Ferrari topics which you did. You have every right to expect what you paid for. I can afford to buy a new battery as does everyone here, but why? Didn't you pay a lot of money for a used car that was supposedly inspected? Is there any reason why you have to pay even a penny more? I think not. The dealer did not live up to their end of the bargain - simple and end of story. Why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? Did you not fly down there to personally make sure that things were done correctly? They did not keep their promise and did not deliver what they claimed they were going to. You are not bad mouthing anyone but simply stating a fact.
     
  11. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477


    It does not matter that the car was used. The point is that it was misrepresented on several fronts. He gave them far too much credit to begin with, as there were early indicators of trouble and dishonesty.
     
  12. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    #112 up4speed, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
    Well said Kai, my feelings exactly. As a matter of fact after reading all your posts in this thread, I feel that you totally get it. You sound like a very nice guy who is honest with business practices, as well as a great sense of pride in the things you do, and have a lot of respect for your self and others. Definitely the type of guy that I like to associate with. I'm not saying that because you agree with me, I'm saying it because you are obviously sticking to the presented facts and leaving emotion out of it.

    Still waiting for a return call from yesterday morning. Yesterday he said "Don't worry we want to make you happy, I'll look into it and call you tomorrow" It's been 35 hrs now, not 10 minutes like it always was before they had the sale. I'm not going to call back because I don't want to be a pain in the butt, I'm just waiting to see if they do the right thing. Even if I call him and get him on the phone, it won't change anything I do regarding the paint correction because it was going to the local dealer for the fix no matter what. If he doesn't call in a few days, I will get a copy of my invoice for the detailing, along with a proposal for the alarm siren and fax it to him and his boss. I want to give them one last opportunity to take care of it before I accuse them of wrong doing. As far as I'm concerned, the wrong doing was done, but I can forgive them if they back peddle to make it right.

    I got it in writing in many different forms. It's useless to me because I'm over 1,000 miles away, and any follow up is not worth it. Yes, under normal situations, it is definitely important to get things in writing. The better lesson to all is: don't leave the dealership without the car in the condition that you paid for. Have it fixed before you leave. Like I said previously, for me it was not possible due to time constraints, but that's why I took the calculated risk knowing that I may be out $1,000 or so. That doesn't mean that it is ok for a dealer to take the opportunity and screw me out of the agreed upon work. I would never do that to someone. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

    First of all it's not just a detail that is needed. I wouldn't complain about that. It's PAINT CORRECTION. If you don't know the difference, please look it up and educate yourself before telling me it's no big deal. Secondly, you just don't get it do you? I really don't think you know right from wrong. It's not about the car, or the cost to make it perfect for the 100th time!! Your posts make me think of a contractor that shows up, does 1/2 of what the homeowner wants, then disappears off of the job.

    I don't plan on chasing them, or even wasting much more time complaining to them. I am letting them make their own business choices. However, they will get what they deserve from me. Positive or negative feedback. If it happens to be negative, Ferrari North America will also get a call.

    Niether did I. Exactly!

    I didn't really have a choice because it was a long distance sale. Does it make sense that I shouldn't be able to trust them to take care of a few silly little things? I would think a repeat customer, reputation, referrals etc. are worth way more than the junk they owed me.


    Precisely! I never asked for anything unreasonable throughout the whole purchase. It's not like I got a bargain either, I paid for my expectations.

    It is in writing, several different forms of writing. It's not an issue unless I plan to go after them legally. In my case a gentlemans agreement is, and should be the same thing. The salesman is not denying anything I said they owed me, I just don't understand why they left me to sort it all out when it was supposed to be done prior to shipping it.

    It's hard for your garage to look bad with all those gorgeous cars in there!!

    Unfortunately the early indicators were after I got down there. Initially I figured that they were so easy going, and it was going to be a real easy transaction as it should be. When I got down there, I realized that I was getting yessed to death, and not seeing action. A very simple example is when I tried to get the service documents. I asked for an e-mail that day, and the originals to be shipped with the car when I was down there..."no problem". a few days later, no e-mail and the car was sent to to the shipper. I e-mailed him and said: "If you didn't put the documents in the car, please send them to me via mail"....Response "no problem". The car came 4 days after that day, no documents in it. No documents in the mail yet either. Yesterday's conversation, I said "Where are the documents?" , his response, "I'll put them in the mail today, and over night them". Guess what, it's over night, and still no documents! unlike the other issues with the car where I'm going to back off and see what happens. With the documents, in a few more days, I will call every day if I have to until I get the documents, because they are important when it comes time for me to resell the car.
     
  13. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    1,581
    Greenwich, CT
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    Still waiting on documents for my car about 1 month later...

    To be honest, the only dealer I have ever dealt with that has been excellent and delivered on promises is Mercedes Benz white plains ny. I have bought 7 cars from them and have always left happy.

    It's unfortunate but the typical car buying experience is not good.
     
  14. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I tackled the side marker light today. A little bit of a pain, but not too bad. For those who haven't done it. You have to pull the wheel off, then there is a panel in the wheel liner fastened by 6 screws that has to come off, so you have access to the rear of the light. I pulled off the panel to replace the bulb. The bulb was good. The problem was that the power jack was not plugged into marker light! So much for me giving them the benefit of the doubt that the bulb burnt out in the 3 days that it was being transported. Apparently the 101 point inspection was someone sitting at a desk, checking all the boxes. Tell me when it's ok to accuse them of not doing their job, lol.
    If they didn't see something as obvious as a light, that lights up in their face. What is the chance that they checked anything that required more work than turning a switch on, and doing a quick walk around the car?
    I'm pretty sure they didn't check anything and relied on the fact that it is a 3,500 mile car, and figured what can go wrong in 3,500 miles? Why waste a technicians time?
    Who ever reads this, please don't respond with "It's a stupid light, what's the big deal", or "it's fixed now, get over it". If you are tempted to write that, don't waste your time because you are missing the point and wasting your breath (typing)!
    Remember two words: Accountability and responsibility.
     
  15. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I have never been blown off this bad by any dealer, and I bought many cars from dealers. It's very unfortunate.
     
  16. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,198
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    Luix Lecusay
    Don't let the dealer correct the paint, they wont have a pro detailer at their location, I haven't had good results by dealers. If they hire someone else to do then it will cost a lot more. Find a really good detailer and probably if it's only paint correction then $300 maybe $400 bucks should cover it.
     
  17. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    #117 up4speed, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
    I didn't choose the dealer blindly for the paint correction. It was a recommendation from a close friend of mine (also a Ferrari owner). He has been detailing cars since he was a kid, and used to detail my Daily drivers as well. He does an awesome job.
    He knows a great detail job when he sees it, and is the one that told me that the guy who does detailing for Ferrari of Long Island does a phenominal job. My friend got a detail from the same guy that is going to work on my car, he said he could not find any flaw with his work. Fof LI says they will need my car for 2 days! :( I am going to go through withdrawals without it! Boy I wish it was taken care of already, like it was supposed to have been.
     
  18. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2001
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    The original story reminds me of a scene from Animal House, after Flounder let the 'boys' drive his brother's Lincoln. When he acted shocked that the guys wrecked the car, he was promptly told...... "You F'd up.... you trusted us"!

    Expecting anything other than mediocrity or a hustle from any car dealer is a recipe for disappointment and frustration. The fact that they let you fly down, knowing dam well that the thing was not even close to perfect, should have been a clue. Expecting them to follow through and correct anything once they have been paid is a pipe dream.

    If you wanted the things corrected, no money should change hands until its done. Period! End of story!

    As Reagan said about the Russians.... "Trust, but verify".

    Look on the bright side, it looks like you have a good car, that only needs minor help. Have fun and put some miles on it.
     
  19. Ice9

    Ice9 Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Up4, I feel your pain: that sucks. When I bought my M5, I learned that many dealers do not actually conduct "certified pre-owned" inspections. Instead they check all of the boxes and deal with anything that you can identify as an issue later. That is why these inspections have no potency unless accompanied by a warranty.

    I encountered almost exactly the same problems when I bought a Bentley in Palm Beach. They advertised their detailing and inspection process and, in the end, it was all a load of lies. The dealers have paid off all the legislators to the point that the consumer has little power over them. ( I love how they conveniently got themselves exempted from all the recent financial reform legislation and yet bankers cant take a leak without paying up -- shows their relative power).

    I have concluded that with used cars, you are basically at the mercy of the previous owner -- the dealer adds little to no value besides having a minor information advantage (major if they are willing to lie as in your case). If the prior owner took good care of the car, it will shine. Otherwise, you buy their problems.

    The only remedy is to get an independent PPI and always remember that no matter what the car, what they wear or how snooty the dealership, these guys are still just used car dealers.
     
  20. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Ok, at least you know of his reputation.

    I totally understand your frustration as I had pretty much the same thing happened to me and the car needed a full detail inside and out that took about 24 hours!!! They said a full detail was done and my surprise when I got the car.
     
  21. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Shame on me for thinking that a Ferrari dealer is held on a higher standard than a corner used car lot. I figured that they would be better because they had more accountability to the parent company. Lesson learned!
     
  22. ELMEL

    ELMEL Rookie

    Feb 26, 2008
    12
    Bay Area, CA
    I can understand the sentiment among many here that life is short, so the OP shouldn't sweat the "small stuff," and move on to enjoying the car. But I find it offensive when I make an agreement with someone and they don't hold their end of it. In legal terms, that's breach of contract, pure and simple, verbal or written, practical or not. And yeah, I'm a lawyer.

    I can't help but wonder what Steve Jobs would've done here. Would he have tolerated the failures of FoPB and just moved on with his life? Would you have wanted him to? Do you want people who make the products and services you buy to be lazy, negligent, careless, thoughtless, reckless, or selfish? Steve was a perfectionist and it's one of the things I admired most about him. He always pushed everyone to do better. Yeah, there were some that were afraid, but I think most who worked for him were driven to deliver because we shared the same values.

    I take pride in my work. When I hire people, I look for people who take pride in theirs. When I do business with people, I hope (though never expect) that they live by the same code. If they never made a promise to me, then I have have no right to any expectation. But once you make a promise, you should deliver on it. Period.

    up4speed, I'm behind you 100%. You made a deal. You have it in writing. You're entitled (legally and ethically) to get what was promised. Anyone who doesn't agree has every right to their own perspectives and is free to have different values and different concerns. But the fact that the nature of the issues here are indeed somewhat trivial only serve to magnify the dealer's disregard, and for me, that speaks volumes about how the dealer would handle problems that are more challenging. No thanks.

    FWIW, I've found a Porsche dealer in my area who provides the best sales and service experience I've ever had anywhere. They're honest, they deliver what they promise, their service techs diagnose correctly the first time, and I never have to bring the car back for the same problem twice. I rave about them to anyone who will listen, I provide glowing reviews to dealer management and Porsche NA surveys, and I proactively write well-earned positive reviews in the Porsche forums. So, there are two sides to every coin.

    I'm currently shopping for a Ferrari and will put FoPB on the back burner until I hear how this resolves.
     
  23. Afonsolaw

    Afonsolaw Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2011
    1,911
    New jersey
    I think there are some on here that think that those of us who are saying " move on and start enjoying your car" are insensitive to the OP issue... It's not that I am insensitive it's just that... It is not a surprise... At the end of the day Ferrari dealer or not you are still dealing with a used car dealer. When I was on the hunt I spoke to many dealers and I will not mention which one but I dealt with a local Ferrari dealer that I felt was sub par as far as customer satisfaction and respect... At the end of the day I ended up buying my car from another dealer that I felt comfortable and was happy with what I was getting... Not what I was promised. At the end of the day you are dealing with a used car salesman... And they say lawyers are the scum of the earth lol and I happen to be a lawyer too just like many other members of this forum at the end of the day lawyer or not no one is imune to what the OP went through... whether the OP gets what he bargained for or not... This transaction has ruined his Ferrari car buying experience. Just get the car to the way you want it... Start enjoying the car... Put this experience behind you and cqll it an expensive lesson learned!
     
  24. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I can also vouch for a great Porsche dealer in my area as well, Porsche of Huntington. I bought my car from Jason, who is a great stand up guy, I have a lot of respect for him. I also became friends with the mechanic Nadim. He is one of the best, and most careful technicians I have ever met. I have such great respect for him as well. He takes so much pride in his work. I actually have to force him to take a tip. When I give him my car, I have zero concerns about any damage, or him not doing a job as per the book with proper torques etc. I get the car back without even a finger print anywhere. He always wears gloves, and constantly changes them. What really made me feel comfortable with him, was an incident when I first purchased the car. There was a gas cap recall for it, so they changed the gas cap for me. I went outside to take a look at the cap, just to see if it looks any different than the original. Apparently, I had just washed my hands and had a paper towel in my hand. As I bent down to look at the new cap (with paper towel in my hand), I hear him in the distance saying "no, no, no don't do that" as he is running towards me at the car. I froze in my tracks and asked what was wrong? He explained that if I wiped the car with the paper towel, it would cause light scratches in the finish. I had no intention of wiping anything with the paper (of course), apparently he thought that I was, because I had a paper towel in my hand. He thought I was wiping finger prints off of the fuel door. From that moment on, I figured if he cared enough to come running, so I don't harm the finish of the car, then he was the right guy to work on my car! That comes from pride, I think you are born with it (or not). I almost bought a 911 Turbo, just because the dealer is THAT good. This time around, I had to follow my dream, and go for the more exotic car.
     
  25. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I have every intention of putting it behind me, that's not really the issue. As a matter of fact I started sorting things out. The only things left are the alarm, and the paint damage issue. The alarm can wait, no big deal for now, it doesn't spoil the experience. The paint is going to get taken care of tomorrow morning, into Thursday. I wanted that done asap because that does spoil the experience for me. I'm one of those people that swears that a car drives better right after it is washed, lol. I know it's not true, but it sure feels that way!
    If you had a bad experience with a dealer, why won't you reveal the dealers name? It will help any future buyers that are looking. I don't think that you should say any false or harmful made up things just to hurt them because they didn't satisfy you (that can be libel or slander, and exposes you legally) but I do think you should present the facts surrounding your experience. Others can use it as a guide. For instance, in my case, if the dealer eventually makes things right for me (even if they don't), it shouldn't prevent people from shopping there if they see a car that they like. If they do choose to shop there, my information will definitely help them with the purchase tactics which will likely eliminate any purchase problems for the purchaser. You wouldn't be naming them to tell people not to go there, but you would arm them with knowledge on what to expect before going in. I see no problem with that. Correct me if I am wrong legally or morally.
    Wow it's getting late! I have to get up early and bring my car in for the paint correction. Good night to all, to be continued.....
     

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