Amazing stuff man. I'm sure many of us would buy some of your kits if you ever turn them out.
Mark, Will call you tomorrow if your around? My original CS rear ones have now been painted and the front already prepped so half way there now. Bet you cannot wait to get your as new car! With the carbon brakes and full cs suit your call will feel and look totally different!
Here's the pics of the box with the codes on... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well I have kept spares of everything sitting in my garage! In it for the long haul... Complete spares package including a low mileage engine & gearbox, ccm's, suspension, center lock rims, hubs, ecu's, interior, cf racing seats, the lot. In fact I have enough to virtually remake my car again from bits! I'm sure you could hazard a guess but I don't fancy thinking about that number ...
Thanks Eddie, that really means a lot to me coming from you. I have huge respect for your knowledge and skills. I always look forward to reading your posts. Thanks for looking!
Thanks Enrique, Did anything more to your monster spider project recently? Any new pics? Tempted by a center lock conversion
Thank you Sir. Very impressed w your work. That is why when I see you use some parts for your car, it is good enough for mine Thank you again.
Lots of questions keep getting answered like; Firstly watch this video on how Brembo CCM's are made... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrhVHA-3ZBU[/ame] Corvette ZR1 CCM's on your 430 Scuderia As you'll have watched a carbon ceramic disc is composed of two parts, the carbon ceramic outer braking surface and the inner center bell. I've posted extensively on this subject before. The CCM center bells [made from either Steel Or Aluminum depending on if they are for racing [lighter] vs Road cars [x4 heavier]). They are specifically machined to fit your car's wheel hub and caliper offsets, all the dimensions are specific to each car such as the diameter of the central CNC fitting varies between car types. Even between same manufacturers the offset of the bell is often different too. Finally you've also got the carbon ceramic outer - this is shared across manufacturers and between models. You just need to ensure the diameters fit your requirements. They ZR1 ccm's are actually a much closer fit to later models. Namely; > 430 Scuderia > F430 Challenge > 458 Italia > 599 > etc. All these models above have the same carbon brake dimensions for the FRONT calipers. The Scud utilizes 398mm diameter carbon discs. The radius from the center is therefore 199mm [diameter/2]. Compared to the ZR1, its diameter is 394mm [radius is 197mm]. So we are basically just -2mm smaller radius on the Corvette ZR1 discs! Aha! And as it happens Pagid, the manufacturer whom makes the pads, the S600 [stock], RS19/RS29[fast road/track day] pads share THE SAME PAD part number for the Scuderia and ZR1. Note: I've NOT done this conversion myself so this is STILL EXPERIMENTAL but looks possible. Essentially there is near as damn no difference between the ZR1 OUTER CCM and the SCUD ones - not a perfect match but actually works 100%. In fact the 2mm smaller doesn't even miss any of the caliper pad swept surface area! Yes you still require to swap over your own CENTER BELL from your original Scud/F430Ch/458Italia discs [so they fit your actual car] but once this is done you have fully compatible front ccm's for a fraction of the price. Only thing to point out its no so straight forward to sometimes remove the old center bell off a used disc. The metal fixings can get a bit rusty. It can be done with some time and determination though, just take your time and torque them up in sequence like you would a head... Now that CCM's are about to be rolled out across more mainstream models I expect to see prices come down drastically which will force the prices down of Ferrari CCM's so I wouldn't worry about it too much if your current discs are fine. They actually last very long time, unless racing with the most aggressive pad material. I recommend RS19's/RS29's for the best pad life on both CS and Scud sized rotors. Hope this helps.
This is what I posted in MAY 2011... --- cut --- cut -- re-post -- CCM Disc options Ferrari was the first manufacturer to fit as standard CCM's across the entire range of cars but now that they have been around 7+ years the mainstream brands are starting to be offered them at drastically reduced prices... Step forward Corvette as an example. So my question is this, is it yet possible to bypass Ferrari dealers/parts suppliers entirely and source CCM's direct and thus cheaper? Well you cannot go directly to Brembo but there are options to buy from other Model vendors as long as your aware of the caveat's. Read on. Firstly we need to understand the composition of a CCM disc. Dimensions 1. Firstly there is its diameter and then its thickness. Both need to be identical to fit your standard calipers. Center bell Next after the CCM disc itself is the centre bell, this is bolted on to the CCM disc and is typically model specific. This is so its recess in the bell can fit the caliper clearances and also the model's wheel hub inner diameter hole. This basically makes it easy to claim that CCM discs from other models/manufacturers will not fit your car. I.e. They will typically not sell the bare CCM disc as a separate and distinct part number, instead the CCM discs are sold as a BELL + DISC together as one part. There is one difficulty. It can be rather tough to remove the old bells from the old discs, they can almost 'rust' together and require lots of patience and WD40 (!) to get them freed but it is possible. Just be careful not to get any oil on the disc surface itself. Let us now look at the various applications of CCM discs sizes across different Ferrari models; Challenge Stradale / F430 Front: 225/35 ZR19 (380 x 34 mm CCM) 5-Stud Fitment, Central Bell produced in Steel Rear: 285/35 ZR19 (350 x 34 mm CCM) 5-Stud Fitment, Central Bell produced in Steel 430 Scuderia Front: 235/35 ZR19 (398 x 36 mm CCM) 5-Stud Fitment, Central Bell produced in Aluminium Rear: 285/35 ZR19 (350 x 34 mm CCM) 5-Stud Fitment, Central Bell produced in Aluminium 430 Challenge Front: 235/35 ZR19 (398 x 36 mm CCM) Central Nut Fitment, Central Bell produced in Aluminium Rear: 285/35 ZR19 (350 x 34 mm CCM) Central Nut Fitment, Central Bell produced in Aluminium Already from the above you can see that the Scud and Challenge uses the same identical CCM disc but the CENTRAL BELL is a different fitment. This is so that the discs can be fitted on the centre lock hubs. Ferrari decided to machine the centre lock hubs 1 or 2mm different diameter than the standard 5-stud fitment which had the end result in that the Challenge car bells do not fit on a Scud and vice versa! It's also interesting to see that the 430 Challenge CCM's are substantially cheaper to buy than the Scud discs. However don't let this put you off. You can indeed just swap over the centre bells from your original Scud discs and they work perfectly. In fact I actually use the 4 centre bells from the 430 Challenge REAR discs (since they are a 34mm thick) to fit against my CS calipers/discs! Thats right, in effect allowing CS discs/capliers to be fitted against Central locking 430 Challenge hubs and alloy wheels. A neat conversion which allows 430 Challenge racing wheels to be fitted with CS brakes. (And also saves a LOT of unsprung weight, the racing centre bells are a mere 600g's vs over 2kg's each for the CS steel bells!). So in summary yes you can use the cheaper 430 Challenge discs with your Scud center bells and save money. However what about Non Ferrari models? --- Now we are more 'aware' of the various CCM sizes used we can start to see which other 'mainstream' models from other manufacturers could be used. Corvette ZR1 Front Rotor (394x36mm): 25843121 <--- no directly equivalent to any Ferrari cars for fronts - ~But close enough to fit a Scuderia? Rear Rotor (380x34mm): 25843128 <--- too wide as you can see its quite some incentive to find 'equivalent' Brembo disc parts from other car brands... Apparently the same is true for Bentley CCM discs too. So perhaps we can finally get a complete set of Brembo CCM's for the F430 / CS without going near Ferrari dealer... Another link on the same subject (From a Porsch Owner perspective, also looking into cheaper CCM's... ; http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/546335-same-furnace-but-different-price-pccb-comparison-6.html --- Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
An example of this swapping in action. I used 599 front discs with the F430 Challenge center bells swapped over (but that was only so I could run the center lock hubs, I could have easily used Scud bells instead) with F430 Challenge/ 430 Scuderia front calipers. Here's a picture of a 398mm discs with the center bell removed. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The most important thing to do ask to KEEP your old center bells so you have the option to look at this in the future. That way you can re-use your old bells and do a disc conversion [as described]. Don't let your dealership throw them away!
After some rave reviews by Rad [F430GT] I also opted to use the rather pricey but technically brilliant Endless RF-650 Super Racing Brake Fluid. Firstly here are the boiling temperatures of the DOT minimum standards; Standards: DRY: 401F (205C) -- WET:284F (140C) --- DOT3 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE) DRY: 446F (230C) -- WET:311F (155C) --- DOT4 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE) DRY: 500F (260C) -- WET:356F (180C) --- DOT5 MINIMUM (SILICONE BASE) DRY: 500F (260C) -- WET:356F (180C) --- DOT5.1 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE) Ferrari Shell Recommended (road car) Brake Fluid: DRY: 460F (238C) -- WET:???F (???F) --- SHELL DONAX UB BRAKE FLUID [DOT 4 SPEC] VS 3 of the Best Racing Braking Fluids: DRY: 572F (300C) -- WET:410F (210C) --- AP RACING 600 DRY: 590F (310C) -- WET:518F (270C) --- CASTROL SRF DRY: 613F (323C) -- WET:424F (218C) --- ENDLESS RF-650 I will give it a try and report back! The 360 needs 1.5 liters of brake fluid [which is 3 cans of RF-650!] Image Unavailable, Please Login
wow! lots to soak in. I will have to keep reading this over and over. But I understand it so far. Find used rotors take bell off, put on new rotor. What i dont get is the pads. you say S600 like you mean a benz??
No, sorry for the confusion, the S600 refers to the Pagid Part no. of the original factory fitted pads. The back of the pad is stamped with Pagid S600. It refers to the friction material type used. I was actually suggesting to re-use your original bell centers which you know work with your caliper clearances, wheel hubs, etc. and swap over a new ccm outer. Ideally buying a new outer so you get brand new disc performance but you pay less since it doesn't have a Ferrari logo on the box. Pagid make different types of pads for different purposes. Some people and manufacturers too have a higher priority on things such as noise at the expense of improved performance. This contradicts the people whom seek higher performance ( track day / fast road drivers ) whom seek outright performance and don't mind a bit of noise compromise if the friction is much better, temperatures the pads can handle are better, etc.
oooh! okay understood. I figured that is what you meant.. I did not look it up so I didnt know the part number. That is what I assumed and it just sounded funny. But that is what I thought of.. so I wanted to make sure haha
Hi Trev, one of my buddy who had a silver CS wanted to do the manual conversion & I can see why, cos I love manual boxes too. I would love to have the weight saving carbon stuff you did such as the door handles, shaft covers etc. The centre-lock conversion looks impressive but too hardcore for me & it was pain to use on my Gt3RS so I'll keep the 5 studs.
... My race car center lock conversion is probably my favorite upgrade! 2.4kgs center bells vs 8.0kg's, better handling, lower unsprung weight, wider rims, amazing looks, its just a win win win..... You just need one of these... a huge socket wrench and an enzo socket. With one of these it takes literally seconds to remove or torque up a wheel. Just brilliant. On the CF bits, pm me, I'll help you out, no probs... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hey Trev, great work as usual. Love the new calipers they're monster looking. Regarding the brake fluid graph, something looks way wrong there. The Castrol fluid featured in the graph cannot be the SRF listed above the graph - perhaps some more "stock" Castrol? SRF is rated way above either the AP600 or RF650 in "wet" state. They're rated 270c, 210c and 218c respectively.
Greg, astute as always. In this case its how well the fluid performs as it ages. RF-650 absorbs water a lot slower than SRF, making its Dry boiling point the more relevant number than Wet, when used for a longer period (compared with SRF that is). When brand new indeed SRF is marginally higher rated but its performance dramatically falls off as it gets older in comparison. Not relevant for race teams whom change the fluid every race but on a fast road / track car the idea this is important distinction. The idea that you can get still good levels of performance at the end of the year vs the start seems appealing since you don't need to remember to do even more regular intermediate services specially to just do your brake fluid. You no longer have to worry about what stage in the aging process your fluid has got to since its performance drop off is gradual and much slower than SRF hence my view that I'd rather go with RF-650. I can continue with the regular servicing schedules instead of every 3 months changing the fluid - which quite frankly is a pain. Title on graph was misleading.. lets try again... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I honestly think you've gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick here Trev. When new, the RF650 is actually marginally better than the SRF. It will boil at 323c versus the SRF at a slightly lower 310c However, when wet (measured at a standard 3.7% water by volume) the RF650 will boil at 218c but the SRF will not boil until a considerably higher 270c. The graph should show SRF way, way ahead of the others at the 3.7% section. I cannot find any solid information on the absorption rates over time but I doubt it's dramatically different. If you're prepared to change your fluid regularly then RF650 provides slightly higher boiling point than SRF, but only if you flush regularly. If you'd rather change say every 12 months or so the SRF should out-perform the RF by a large margin. I suggest that the SRF is in fact the far superior product for the enthusiast that wishes to participate in the occasional track day but doesn't want the headache of regular flushing.
Happy to be corrected, thanks for the info, after all that's the whole point of these discussions! I'll now need to go back and do more homework on this one. I actually got this recommendation from a very respectable Challenge circuit racing team, they claimed that after extensive use their drivers felt RF650 performed better than SRF which they used before. Citing brilliant stability and longevity and that multiple and very regular flushing was just unnecessary. They did however say I couldn't go wrong with either SRF or RF650, both being are excellent products. Interested in what F430GT has to say in the subject because he posted recently that he also made the move over from SRF to RF650 so I'd be very interested to get his perspective on the subject and to fully understand why this was the case. Just read the datasheet on SRF and it states fluid should be changed every 18 months, excellent really for such high performance fluid, I wonder how it performs after say 12 months? Can you elaborate? Noticed any differences in pedal feel?
What a close call ! During recent work on fitting a CCM Brake Master Cylinder I noticed a strong electrical smell and smoke coming from the area near the brake master cylinder while the cover was off. I though... that's odd, but where is it coming from? Then I realized it was from that stupid Bosch alarm siren.. Argh.. That stupid part nearly took out my car!!!!!! After cutting it open here are the shocking results.... I dread to think how many cars around the world have burned due to these batteries failing? Lets face it, its just very very poor. I know I am not the only one to post pictures like this but its still shocking when you see it on your own car! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
