355 F1 or 6 speed? preferences...

I have a 98 355 F1 and I find it's transmission to be better than the double clutch in my 2011 BMW. Double clutch transmissions feel just like an automatic. You can tell the F1 is an automated manual.

 

I drove a 2011 Porsche 911 with PDK a little while ago, and it felt like poop compared to the bang-bang-bang feel of a 2001 360 F1 (only F with paddles I've driven).

Oh, and my 355 is a manual, and unless I was mostly tracking the car I don't think I'd like the F1 day to day. I haven't lived with both, though.

 

you may want to do some more research here chief, because thats an inaccurate statement.

 

How so? The 355 has a clutch and pressure plate. The system in buddy's new Vette is more automatic transmission than clutch / pressure plate. No?

...and why the "chief" remark? Is that meant as a derogatory comment or an arrogant one?

 

I'm guessing that his issue of accuracy stemmed from this half of your statement.

I don't believe that the industry is willing to adopt a new definition of "automatic" which includes the functionality of the F1. Therefore he has a point -- it's more than a traditional automatic trans. Some might say it's less, but I think we can agree that it's different, even if only on technical grounds.

 

It is getting confusing now.
1. Traditional standard trans
2. Traditional auto with torque converter
3. 355 F1 traditional standard trans with automatic controls
4. Your buddy's C6, traditional auto trans with automatic controls
5. New F1/PDK gear boxes are dual-clutch jobs similar to traditional standards and some use torque converters instead of clutch packs. I'm sure in the future the hybridization will continue and become more confusing.

"The design of PDK is similar to two conventional gearboxes in one. The odd numbered gears are housed on one assembly and the even numbered gears on another, each having its own clutch. While one gear is engaged, PDK preselects the next gear based on driver input. When the next gear is requested, drive is switched from one clutch to the other in milliseconds, delivering gear changes with no loss of drive."
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTPDopKuGe&Category=&Model=&SearchedString=&SelectedVariant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

Someday a CVT will be able to handle high HP and TQ, when that day comes watch out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission

 

That's some great data. Thanks.

My comment was one of simplification. Not worth the bandwidth to discuss further IMHO.

 

Not all Porsches with paddle shifters are the same. Those made previous to 2009 are plain automatic transmissions. 2009 and later are double clutch. All Corvettes with paddles are plain automatic transmissions.

I have a double clutch BMW, a manual S5 and a 355 F1. Before I bought the 355 I had a series of Porsches. I test drove the PDK and was disappointed that it drove just like an automatic so all my Porsches were stick.

When I first drove the 355 F1 I was surprised at how slow it shifts. I knew it would be slower than the BMW but was surprised by how much. The F1 does shift faster higher in the RPM range though. The F1 is a more satisfying experience than double clutch. The double clutch cars I've driven feel and sound almost exactly like an automatic. The F1 does not. It's not as fast or refined as a double clutch but that lack of refinement is a plus to me.


The BMW double clutch usually shifts very quickly but sometimes it just screws up and lags your input by what seems like a second or more. It's so bad that I sometimes worry about pulling into traffic. If you can't trust the transmission to be in the gear you select you lose some confidence.

 

Guys, the F355's F1 was Ferrari's first generation. While it was a little slower (compared with 360 and certainly 430/Scud systems) and perhaps a tad rougher around the edges - it was the closest experience to a proper racer. Subsequent Ferrari single clutch F1s became both smoother and faster shifting. My F430 Scud shifted brilliantly in most situations but for me the F1 in a F355 offered just as many thrills.
I've also driven PDK Porsches on road and track and the current generation 991 is indeed amazing. Smooth under all circumstances and ultra quick when used aggressively. But... Still its not as fun or engaging as a single clutch gearbox.

 

I previously had a '96 6 speed and now have a '99 f1. There is no comparison;
go for the f1. Faster shifts, better in traffic and keeps a hand free to grab your girlfriend's thigh

 

Have owned 335 F1 for one year now, 19k miles total on the car no new clutch, no problems
with F1 either.

 

I'll go with a six speed and find me a British chick!!!

 

I would go for F1. Especially if you have traffic jam in your area. Fast shifting is also nice.

 

Dear lord, who has that picture that says "not this sheet again...?"

OK, once and for all (doubt that...). Caps on:

THE 355F1 DOES NOT HAVE AN ELECTRONIC THROTTLE. YOU MUST HEEL-TOE THE DOWNSHIFTS MANUALLY, JUST LIKE A REGULAR MANUAL. THIS IS PRECISELY WHY THE 355 F1 IS ACTUALLY THE BEST AUTO SHIFTER THAT WILL EVER BE MADE, AS IT GIVES YOU ALL THE UPS (hands on the wheel, faster than human shifts, no misses) WHILE RETAINING THE DRIVER INTERACTION (full manual selection of gears, rev-matching downshifts).

OK, rant over.

The other regularly misunderstood facts and trivia:
1. If you drive it like a manual, as you should, it is smoother than you driving a manual.
2. Though "shift times" (gear disengage to gear engaged) may be slower than some reported new cars, the time to initiating the shift (the most important bit to me) in the 355F1 is essentially ZERO. Pull the paddle, and things start NOW. Many other cars, you pull the paddle, an electronic committee meets, and sometime later a gear change is approved. I HATE that. What the hell does it matter if the shift happens in a millisecond if it does it 10 seconds after I ask for it?
3. To my knowledge, it is the only car on the road which is actually designated by badge as being an "F1". I think Bernie must have caught on...

I have owned both, and I never thought I would prefer the F1 in the 355 (the manual is great too) but I do.

 

With the 355 the F1 would be my choice if I could afford anything related to that system and the majors. That's the only reason I would go six speed on this model.

 

I am wondering why do so many people upgrade their F1 pump to the 360, is it better or cheaper?

 

OK, here you go....
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

There is no need to upgrade unless the original pump goes bad. The 360 pump is much cheaper, around $3k compared to $11k (just what I've read). And the 360 pump is faster to charge the hydraulic system.

 

I already knew that, but why would you heel/toe an f1 car? Left foot brake and tap the throttle with your right foot when down shifting, no transition from brake to gas coming out of turns and vice versa which is where half the benefit of the f1 trans comes from. It's still much more satisfying executing a proper heel/toe in a real manual trans car.

 

On left-hand drive models the brake pedal is too far to the right to left-foot brake comfortably. The brake pedal in F1 models can be adjusted laterally due to its increased width, but even with it in the leftmost position I still wasn't comfortable reaching it with my left leg. I ended up moving it further to the right instead for easier heel-and-toe and don't find downshifting any less satisfying than with my clutch pedal equipped cars.

With right-hand drive in contrast, the pedals are offset such that the brake is probably better aligned with the left than right leg, an ideal setup for left-foot braking. I'd gladly give up heel-and-toe for that.

 

Well thanks guys for now screwing my head up as much as possible in my search for my first Ferrari and 355