My 458 really is a Lemon (sadly)

I think the title of this thread is mislabeled. It doesn't sound to me like the car is "a lemon". It sounds like the OP is unhappy with some quality issues of paint and interior and dealer service.

A lemon to me is that it returns over and over for the same mechanical problem or series of problems. As far as I can see, that's not what is happening here.

The battery drain issue is not a lemon issue. It's pretty clear that Ferrari says you have to put it on the trickle charger or run the car once a week. There's no evidence here that the OP is following FNA's recommendations and it's still failing. Any car left alone will eventually drain the battery. There's no evidence that his is any different. Perhaps it is... but it's not been presented.

As to the dash, yes, two times is unfortunate. What can you say? It happens to Toyota's too. But lemon? I don't think so. As far as we can see in over 3 years of watching here, the dash seems highly unlikely to fail. Gearboxes? Yes. Dash? No.

To me, the OP is more upset that some physical things have been done to the car and the dealer won't or can't fix them to his satisfaction.

But, that doesn't make the car "a lemon". It makes an unhappy purchaser.

That doesn't mean the OP doesn't have a point. He bought the car and wants it correct. Who can blame him?

It's just not "a lemon".

 

+1

 

Wiki:
"Consumer protection legislation typically labels vehicles as 'lemons' if the same problem recurs despite multiple repair attempts (such as three times in a row over a short period, where previous attempts have not fixed the problem) or where defects have caused a new vehicle to be out of service for a prolonged period (typically thirty days or longer) for repairs."

Granted that a series of frustrating experiences with the dealer can make an owner proclaim his car a "lemon" and send him to this Forum with a big beef, at the end of the day the problem is between owner and dealer and perhaps FNA.

 

This is the second example of a 458 being lemoned I have heard about. Another was by a local NJ owner. With all the problems these are having, im glad I stuck with a 599.

 

I know of a lemon law case that the Ferrari dealer (nameless), explained to me that when the buyer obtained an attorney, that is when Ferrari listened to him (took his case serous) and was able to have Ferrari take back the car.

There is a Federal Lemon Law and State Lemon Laws in place to protect us from dealers and manufactures. I would look into a consultation and see your what your options are. You may or may not have a case? However, until a person actualy obtains council, Ferrari and or, the local dealership will not take you serously.

greyhair

 

Trust me.. there are 599's that were given back also. And, this car has not been accepted back. The OP wants the dealer to take it back because they bungled a repair to the tow hook (at least, that's how I read it).

Oh, BTW: There were McLaren's that were given back also....

I'm still waiting for evidence that this is "a lemon". Replacing the dash twice doesn't cut it for me as "a lemon". Neither do dead batteries-- unless they were dead under the guidelines.

 

Without detracting from the seriousness of the op's problem - this sounds like Winston Wolfe in Pulp Fiction: "That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten."

 

A vehicle that is taken back by or through the lemon laws does not necessarily mean the car is designed or necessarily engineered wrong. It can simply happen by not having a specific part which the owner is waiting the requiered amount of months which fall under the lemon laws. There are many ways a car can be considered a lemon. However, if a 458 keeps having problems but is fixable-----well that means it may not be the Ferrari for some folks but still not be considered a lemon. This is why waiting for a few years for the manufacturer to work out the faulty design problems may be worth it. Another-words, late model 458's. Some other Ferrari models may have not of had that many problems as others as in the 599's. But keep in mind this is the first time Ferrari has the wet clutch automatic transmission. There are going to be problems which we all know about and have read about here on this forum. Hopfully they have worked them out berfore the spider 458 comes to town.

 

Lemon laws vary from state to state. However, it typically involves a vehicle being brought back *MANY* times for the same problem. 2-3 attempts, even 4-5 attempts to repair may not even be enough.

I once bought a Volvo S60R. Within the first month at ~250 mi, it developed a horrendous brake squeal; the kind where everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) at the intersection stares.

Over the course of 13 months, my car was at two different Volvo service centers a total of 11 times for the same problem (two different service centers because we had moved). New pads, new rotors, chamfered pads, scuffed rotors, new calipers... Only after this many *DOCUMENTED* attempts did we mutually agree that the problem could be classified under California lemon law.

I contacted Volvo Customer Service, initiated the buyback process, and 6 weeks later they picked up the car and gave me a check totally all my payments less 17 days of prorated value (I first reported the incident 17 days into ownership).

But again it was the same problem with 10+ attempts to repair.

DL

 

I just wonder if this was not a ferrari but (fill in the blank) would the don't worry it will all work out/i don't think you really have bad car(ie; lemon) be of the same opinion---- the other question is how many days has the car actually been out of service

 

That's my understanding also. I think aesthetic issues are not subject to this law because everyone has a different opinion about what is and is not acceptable. Once you accept the car in the first place and pay for it, that's pretty much the end of it as far as I know (unless something changes over time such as the dash wrinkles or a seam busts).

The one question though is what happens if a dealer botches a repair. To me, it's the responsibility of the dealer to make that right -- not FNA. FNA can put pressure on them but ultimately, the dealer has to pick up the tab if it's their mistake.

Now, the question may be that the owner and the dealer disagree on what is and is not acceptable. At that point, you need an attorney.

 

To the OP, PM sent...

 

Independents in the area:

Andy Falbo: 480-836-7915
Alex Traverso: 480-241-8877

 

Arizona Lemon Law Summary
http://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/AZ-LLsummary.pdf

 

His car is under warranty. Giving it to an independent is just going to make things worse.

 

But, he bought it in Canada. Wouldn't the laws of British Columbia rule here?

Let's say that he had problems with the Vancouver dealer. But, there are no lemon laws in Vancouver (maybe there are, I just don't know). You can't move the car to a Lemon Law state and then claim it's a lemon, can you?

Could you move a car to NY because it has liberal lemon laws vs the state you live in? I don't think so.

I think you can sue the AZ dealer for incompetence but I'm not sure you can ask them to buy it back under the lemon law. Maybe someone knows?

 

OP just needs to contact a competent Lemon Law attorney in AZ and the facts would be clear if the OP has a case, under the AZ Lemon Law.

 

Again it seems like a dealer issue than a car issue. I have rear sensors and they work fine. So, why yours can't must be some installation problem because -- to be frank -- they are really simple and solid state. There's no reason for them to beep at random. Its 10 year old technology.

But I have one big question.

Why are you here? To put pressure on someone? Because, that's not going to get very far.

In fact, it may actually make people's opinions harden. I know if I were the dealer and I felt differently than what's being posted here (there's ALWAYS two sides to a story), I'd be less likely to find a solution.

It seems like you just want to have FNA buy your car back. Well -- fine. Go get a lawyer and stop trying to argue your case here. It's waste of your time and in fact, could be used against you.

This is a public and open forum. Everything you say can and will be used against you.

 

My best advice to you is to consult with a couple reputable Lemon Law attorneys and see where do you stand. Good luck!

 

TheMayor: "Go get a lawyer and stop trying to argue your case here. It's waste of your time and in fact, could be used against you.

This is a public and open forum. Everything you say can and will be used against you".

 

This car is worse than a lemon. At least with a lemon it's usually only one recurring issue.

 

I fell for the OP.
I have had to "Lemon Law" a car also.
\I was treated very well by the dealership, but items kept breaking, sometimes the same item, sometimes different items.

Dealership tried their best to fix issues, but I had also reach my limit.

** Once the dealership hears the words "Lemon Law", they treat you very differently. **

Eventually after 3 months they took the car back, but it was just a mental hassel.