Okay...Get out the calculators...

What the heck are the eyelashes? Does that refer to the front fender vents?
I think they're more like eyebrows. Do the curtains match.......... Oh, never mind!

 

This is 20005 according the another registry...
This was supposedly from 2009 when it was last for sale in Germany?

It is hard for me to believe that someone undid all that to make this blue one. My guess is that Forza has the wrong number on the ebay listing. I didn't find a number on their website.

HOWEVER! after a little more research....I found this:
http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.htm?id=767
Ron Susser lists a red GTO remake as being 20005....
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Very curious.....



PDG

 

Gents,

Again, if necessary, I am repeating myself: unfortunately, I don't have the truth; and I don't claim to have it.
I just wanted to say that there are conflicting information about the car, IF (and that is the: IF) we take for granted the chassis number given by the E-Bay add, which is indeed 20005.
As it has just been written in the previous post, by Nathan, if 20005 is the red GTO conversion, I too would be at loss to believe that somebody could have taken the pain to undone a whole conversion, and then clad the car back into a standard fiberglass body (??); if it is the black pseudo 308 GT4 illustrated on the picture, that would be more credible as a candidate: this one could have been converted back to a standard car easier than a would-be GTO.

I am french, so sorry: nobody is perfect; but even if I don't know exactly what a "carfax" is, I have collected the impression that it can be of some help to clear the history of a car?

So should somebody here be interested in bidding for this car, I just wanted to say that it could be a good precaution to clear the exact chassis number with the seller (maybe that "20005" on E-Bay is a typo error, as suggested by Peter?), and then do some research, just to be on the safe side. After all, some of us do not always like to discover a "devil in disguise". If indeed it is one?

Best

 

Nerofer - No need for you to apologize for exposing a potential issue with this serial number. You are not the only one to have searched the online registries to find these other cars listed as SN 20005. I am sure someone will talk to Forza Motors to get to the truth to post here. In the meantime, isn't it interesting that two other cars have been found online (so far) claiming to be SN 20005!

The car is too old to have record in CarFax...

 

In the meantime, isn't it interesting that two other cars have been found online (so far) claiming to be SN 20005!

The car is too old to have record in CarFax...[/QUOTE]

Glen,

That reminds me of the old joke: "Ferrari only made 712 of these, of which about 800 are still existing".
Considering that about a third at least of "Vetroresinas" has been more or less modified into track cars, one of my friends always says: with "Vetroresians", three golden rules: beware the history of the car you are considering, beware, and beware.

Best,

 

Interesting.

My Euro 83 QV sold 4 days after I listed it on cars.com. (sold 6/27/12)

The market is busy folks.

You dreamers and lurkers better buy soon.

Prices are definitely moving UP !

Glass and early 2v cars are only appealing to me if they have had a valve job.

I am terrified of sodium filled exhaust valves now.

 

Glen,

That reminds me of the old joke: "Ferrari only made 712 of these, of which about 800 are still existing".
Considering that about a third at least of "Vetroresinas" has been more or less modified into track cars, one of my friends always says: with "Vetroresians", three golden rules: beware the history of the car you are considering, beware, and beware.

Best,[/QUOTE]

Agreed! If you're looking for an "investment grade" Vetroresina (is there any other kind?), you have to buy the best documented car you can find.

 

Nice touch including engine rebuild pics.

 

Possitive comments on this car, considering, wrong materials used for the seats rugs, and this VIN issue that has arisen. Usually it's the usual, over priced comments...is it because the car is at forza and everyone here likes forza ? Cause there is no way any of you would spend north of 50 grand for a 308.....and I have 18,957 threads in the 308 section of fchat to prove it

 

it looks like an early 19k serial number

 

In the late 80s/early 90s, the glass 308 were at a 2~3X higher price than the steel 308 -- maybe it has just permanently altered my own perception, but I always think "bargain" whenever a glass 308 is at/below 2X of an equivalent condition steel 308.

 

this Black one is really 20153 and it's a good oportunity to make you familiar with f-register.com.

Yours

Matthias Urban

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a meme si-GmbH service
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I've never seen both the round and rectangle side markers on one car before. The front markers do seem to be in a different place. Nice car, not pristine. 50k

 

Painted engine ? I hope they didn't sand blast before they cam covers went black. It will never be right if so.

Those seats Oye.

 

Ultimate production 308. As long as the car is genuine, I doubt incorrect details will hold it back. $70K plus is my bet.

I'm interested myself, but would have to let my euro GTB QV go, and I don't think I could do it. Too much time, money, and effort getting it just right to cut it loose. Although in the long run it would likely be the smarter move as the euro glass cars are only going up.

 

these car are becoming ever so rare, too many have been converted to group 4 cars.
As values increase, more glass cars will come out of the closet.

 

You're probably 100% right there. I love the car and I will eventually have one, but the mathematics on what makes them 'better' has me constantly beating my head against the wall. Yes, they are rare and the first of the breed. But all for a measely 70lbs difference from a Euro market steel to a Euro market glass? Not for my dollar.

 

Thanks for the information, Matthias. I am a little bit confussed as to how there is a photo of the steering column number (2005) associated with that black car...but you are likely correct that the black car is not 2005.

I spoke with Forza this AM. The number on their car is indeed 20005. Going from memmory, the engine was rebuilt in 2002 with new pistons, valves, rings, seals....etc. This was done in Northern California, he has reciepts/pics of that.

I am waiting to see what this car might go for. It is Euro, it is glass, it has been rebuilt....but there are some "issues" that will hold it back from what some of the others have gone for/may have gone for.

 

It can definitely not be the same car as the black gr 4. That one has been for sale in Belgium untill very recently, too recent to come out of a restauration like this.....don`t know if that black car has been sold or has been withdrawn from the market .

 

So true. There is better value elsewhere in the range, for sure. Ultimately, our cars are emotional not rational possessions. The baffling psychology of the collector is based as much on hearsay and peer pressure than any real valuation of an extra 20 hp here, ability to take 5% faster corners there.

I still think this car will get top dollar and would get way more in Europe

 

Well...ultimately, the same could be said for the "Dino" (= 206/246); it's a pretty car, yes.
But for the last three I saw at "Retromobile" in february, the asked price was 165.000 euros; and I saw a white one in an add in France a few weeks ago with an asked price of 200.000 euros. That doesn't make much sense to me for a 195 hp car...(that I do like a lot, I have to say). The little jewel seems nevertheless way overpriced to me. But I don't "make the market"...

The "vetroresina" market on the "european continent" is also driven by the fact that, taking into account 712 cars manufactured, of which we have to substract about 100 to 110 exported to the United States, and about 130 with RHD, leaves a pool of 470 cars, not taking into account those exported in very small numbers on other countries, those broken, etc...
Let's say about 360 LHD remains "on the continent" (??), of which one third has been modified more or less heavily for track use; and one third that is more or less neglected: that leave a pool of 120 nice, clean cars with clear history. Not that much...numbers count here.
Add to this the brokers, etc, keeping saying that the "vetroresina" is the next Dino; seems that the market is more or less beginning to believe it...

P.S: I don't know at which price a nice, clean one would actually trade in France these days, but I would say "about 65.000 euros". But some are not actually trading for less than that.

best

 

This car is worth 50k Euros (and more) easily, any day of the week here in Europe....That's about $63k.
I sure hope the rear side reflectors were glued on....
Too bad indeed the camcovers were painted, and as someone else mentioned earlier if they were beadblasted before paint it will be impossible to bring back to the correct original finish.
Also, the rear valance underside has been hacked away partially to accomodate the 4 tip exhaust.
But, I still think it's a nice car, I love the colour!

 

Oh absolutely agreed

 

Love the color and wheels. Gorgeous car.