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Sanden conversion belt size problems

Discussion in '308/328' started by chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012.

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  1. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #1 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I just ran into a problem with the Sanden. Retro Air (who I got the York to Sanden conversion bracket and compressor through) says I should be able to reuse the OEM 11M875 belt. No way, it is too big for the OEM tensioner pulley to tighten up (!$#%$#^!) to the Sanden now. There is no provision in their bracket to move the compressor away from the crank pulley either. They shipped me the one that goes in and out from the timing belt cover to align the three pulleys. Now I have to go to a smaller belt. The next size down from Gates is an 11M850. My fear is it will be too small. I suppose I could use longer Sanden bracket bolts to the upper York bracket (still being used here per Retro's instructions). But then I worry about the compressor's pulley getting too close to the alternator adjustment nut/bolt.
    Do you know of this issue?
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  2. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3

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    #2 Saabguy, Jul 11, 2012
    hmmm.. can you run the belt over the other side of the adjustment pulley or will it fail if running like that? Looks to be plenty of adjustment that direction..


    Lester
     
  3. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #3 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    You mean UNDER the adjustment pulley? I doubt it. It is a V pulley too and may distort the flat side of the belt. Has anyone here done the Sanden conversion?
     
  4. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #4 fastradio, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, I just finished one this morning. IMO, a poorly design kit, not ready for prime time. The stock belt does fit, once the top three mounts are completely tightened.
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  5. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3

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    #5 Saabguy, Jul 11, 2012
    hmm.. I thought that it was flat, won't work if its a "V" for sure.. my bad.

    Lester
     
  6. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #6 Crowndog, Jul 11, 2012
    I have the same kit and it just works, but it works. One of the valves we moved to the front of the car. I don't remember now why I think it was a room issue or the valve was at the wrong angle, not sure which.
     
  7. Dr Kananga

    Dr Kananga Formula 3

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    #7 Dr Kananga, Jul 11, 2012
    Expect many emails about this as I am right behind you on installing my compressor...

    ☺
     
  8. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #8 greg328, Jul 11, 2012
    I've done the sanden thing; on two cars. works fine, you just need the shorter belt. i think i went with a Goodyear 10M875. maybe it was a 870 or 865. Buy several to have on hand when you do the job..

    By the way, the oem belt is 925mm.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #9 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
    Is the OEM an 11M or 10M?

    Also, Gates did not list (offer) an 870 or 865 which is why I mentioned the 850 as the next down from 875. I'll check on Goodyear's line.
    Also, I just did a search and so far, cannot even find a 10MM wide belt (like a 10M870, 10M865, etc..) from Gates or Goodyear. Are you sure it was a 10MXXX?
     
  10. Matto

    Matto Formula 3

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    #10 Matto, Jul 11, 2012
  11. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #11 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    As I said before, no way an 11M875 will tighten up to my setup. Even the other Sanden bracket I've seen, with the curved upper bolt mounting method (i.e. not using the OEM tensioning pulley), would not work for that size that I can see. Maybe if the Sanden's come with different diameter pulleys and I got a smaller one????
    If anyone can find me an 11M 870, 865 or 860 please let me know. Otherwise, my current plan is to use the available 11M850, I have now ordered, then add longer bolts with spacers to the Retro bracket and "drop down" the compressor closer to the driver pulley direction and hope I don't have it hit the between stuff to get the belt on to fit and tension correctly.

    (!%$%$%$#!) I thought this 308/Sanden thing was all figured out in the past....???? (LOL!)

    My car is a French Euro (non-US) but I don't think is that different in this regard.
     
  12. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #12 Crowndog, Jul 11, 2012
    Ah the French. They do things a bit differently don't they? Ask Constance I think she is French, no?
     
  13. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #13 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    David,

    I had the same thought and did tighten the c_ap out of the three upper bolts and still can't tension the 875 belt on mine (????). I was even thinking of removing the OEM rubber spacers in the York bracket to get another 1/8" of pulley "separation". But I want to try the 11M850 belt w/longer bolts and spacers first.

    I love all this!!!!!! (really?)
     
  14. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #14 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    Greg, you're right. At least on mine, my York setup did take the 11M925. I initially got the 11M875 after reading up on Sanden's on this site.

    I'm thinking something is whacked here!
     
  15. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #15 chairpilot, Jul 11, 2012
    Thread carefully my friend!! Don't follow too closely just yet (LOL!)
     
  16. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

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    #16 Steve King, Jul 11, 2012
    Do it the old fashion way. Adjust the idler pulley to the low adjustment and then take a piece of 1/4 " rope and run it over the pulleys. Cut to size and take it to your local NAPA or auto parts store. Match it up and you're good. The other way would to do the same procedure using the belt you have. You just need to cut it and stretch it over the pulleys. Make sure they are tight and when you put the new belts on just go through the standard adjustments.
     
  17. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #17 greg328, Jul 14, 2012
    I wanted to correct myself, and update the thread--the Goodyear Gatorback belt part number is 15346.

    Size is 11AV0865

    It's 11mm wide and 865 long.

    Best,
    Greg
     
  18. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

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    #18 andyww, Jul 15, 2012
    Wonder why the people producing this kit didnt just use the same mounting method as the original Sanden mountings on Euro cars? This is a neat arrangement which doesnt use a tensioner pulley at all, the tension is adjusted by one bolt accessible from the top which swings the compressor itself.
     
  19. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

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    #19 Steve King, Jul 15, 2012
    There is an aftermarket bracket that does the same thing and attaches to the OEM bracket. I had used it on my conversion because I wanted to eliminate the tensioner pully assembly. I found it on ebay. Here it is http://compare.ebay.com/like/310322867846?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
     
  20. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #20 fastradio, Jul 15, 2012
    Andy, that's a great question. I went around and around with my customer on this exact issue. The Euro mount works perfectly. Instead, I received some shop-class caliber photos of a couple of yahoos hanging (not supporting, mind you) the new compressor by nuts and bolts. This install is a huge pain in the ass and required far too much "screwing around" even to get the pulley aligned. Rather than do it right, with a proven mount design, they did it the "cheap way," Sadly, the mount may be cheap, but proper installation won't be.
     
  21. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #21 mike996, Jul 15, 2012
    Haven't done this but I have to admit I don't really understand the issue. If you need a shorter belt why is there a problem with just getting a shorter belt? I'm NOT meaning to be sarcastic but I can't imagine there isn't a belt out there that will fit just fine.

    OTOH, if the kit maker says the oem belt works and doesn't and/or supplies a belt that won't work, that's not a very good indicator that the kit is as well designed as they claim... ;)
     
  22. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #22 thecarreaper, Jul 15, 2012
    user Joe Frazar has a way to convert older Ferrari's with Sanden 508 / 509 compressors and he can get the brackets. he has done a BB512i and at least 6 other Ferrari's, carb and injected. No issues with the belts, and the AC is ice cold.

    Of all my cars, i think we only fixed the AC in 1 of them. I really dont care about AC in an old Ferrari. But that is just me.
     
  23. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #23 chairpilot, Jul 15, 2012
    Steve,
    I like this and may go this route and dump the idler and flat plate. What belt size did you end up using?

    Is (was) there enough in-out lateral adjustment to align the pulleys?

    Bob
     
  24. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    #24 greg328, Jul 15, 2012
    My experience is that the curved ramhorn bracket didn't work on my 328 Sanden install last month. i had to use the flat plane bracket, offset with washers away from the cam cover. i forget why i couldn't get it to work....

    It's for sale cheap if somebody wants it...

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
     
  25. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    #25 Crowndog, Jul 15, 2012
    You wil find excessive lateral play that needs lots of spacers but works well. The two curved parts on the mount do not line up with the spacing on the Sanden hence the spacers.

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356196&highlight=sanden+mount
     
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