Miura, the original supercar | Page 418 | FerrariChat
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Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #10426 joe sackey, Jul 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Joe Sackey
    #10427 joe sackey, Jul 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #10428 miurasv, Jul 13, 2012
    The mid engined production sports car, the Boxer, was also a Grand Tourer then, hence the name 365 GT4 Berinetta Boxer. The fact that the Daytona had GT in its title or was a Gran Turismo does not disqualify it as a supercar. Why is being a 'production sports car' relevant? Wasn't a Miura or a Countach a production sports car?

    Yes, the Daytona was an excellent sports car that was very probably the fastest car in the world, and made as its flagship car by the greatest sports and racing car manufacturer ever, Ferrari, with handling and looks to match and those facts alone qualify it as a supercar. We have seen its prowess on the track against the Miura, a supercar, so the Daytona is a superdupercar, lol.

    Although a traditional front engine design, further qualification comes from its outstandingly beautiful, brutal, elegant shape that was as up to the minute as its sophisticated engine, that nothing surpassed, as well as its thoroughbred chassis, brakes and suspension. It still looks modern now, 45 years later. In its day it was the equivalent of an F12berlinetta which can't be a supercar either by your reasoning, as to qualify it must be mid engined as you said quoting LJK Setright, but have now removed, from your deleted and rewritten post. The Daytona was a supercar and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong, IMO.
     
  4. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    #10429 alberto, Jul 13, 2012
    Nope, not my theory. It's what is reported by various accounts of its fate by others who know more about this than I do.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10430 joe sackey, Jul 13, 2012
    Understood.

    You're simply parroting others' theories. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141586971&postcount=10412 Many a so-called Lamborghini myth has been dispelled over the decade or two by questioning them and doing a little research.
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10431 joe sackey, Jul 13, 2012
    Remember, the term Supercar is a subjective and unofficial moniker given, so it means different things to different people. Poll 10 people on a list of Supercars and you will have a different list each time. Its a personal matter. The Daytona is not on my Supercar list, but it is on yours, and I respect that. That my criteria for Supercar is a bit different from that of someone else really is no big deal, is it? Clearly I am not the only one who does not have it on their list.

     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    #10432 miurasv, Jul 13, 2012
    Yes, Joe the term Supercar is a subjective and unofficial moniker that means different things to different people. You have a great way with words by the way. Please excuse my enthusiasm for the Daytona. I seem to have got carried away in my post which is in no way an attack on you and was probably written because of my high regard and respect of your opinions and the vast information you freely share here. I delete and rewrite posts all the time as I don't like to see the edited footnote on the bottom. So please accept my apologies for the way my post may have come over and also my thanks.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10433 joe sackey, Jul 13, 2012
    No worries! :)

    By way of example, a primary client of mine has all 4 Ferrari Supercars (288 GTO/F40/F50/Enzo) plus the 599 GTO and the 365 GTB/4 Daytona. The latter 2 he considers cars which are super, but ask him about his Supercars and he will only wax lyrical about the first 4.

    Whatever floats your boat...
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #10434 miurasv, Jul 14, 2012
    Your client's supercars are what I would call hypercars, a league initiated by the 288 GTO of which the cost was far greater than the Testarossa supercar. From memory the 288 was about £72,000 in 1984 and the Testarossa was a lot cheaper around £55,000???
     
  10. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    #10435 alberto, Jul 14, 2012
    Yup, I'm as guilty as you parroting that Eduardo Miura owned the Miura that was photographed at his ranch with Ferruccio. ;)
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10436 joe sackey, Jul 14, 2012
    Sorry, Alberto, you have no clue what you are talking about. Don't flatter yourself.

    Share what proves it wasn't.

    Actually, I didn't parrot others theories on Don Miura and his Miura (s). I did my own research.

    I got in touch personally with Werner Ben Heiderich in Madrid. I showed him the images I had, and he confirmed to me what I published. At least I took legitimate steps to reach my conclusion. If others think otherwise, that's entirely up to them.

    Do a little research and find out what his personal relationship with Don Miura was. Then, if you are confident, why not publish your own findings rather than continue to parrot other's theories either way?
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10437 joe sackey, Jul 14, 2012
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  13. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    Mar 8, 2003
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    #10438 Wolfgang, Jul 14, 2012
    Produite le 3 Octobre 1969
    matching number
    Carrosserie restaurée par "Pierluigi Bottini" en 1991
    précedent propriétaire depuis 1998
    moteur restauré en 1999.
    Révisé en 2010

    Original Verde Miura/Black to dealer Zani in Italy
    1998 located near Venice
    1990 Sold to a collector in Cremona
    1991 under work at famous atelier "pierluigi Bottini" near Milan that complety restored the body
    1998 Sold to a Collector in Varese that restored the engine
    2011 : engine revised.

    Adv. here:
    http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/lamborghini-miura-p400s-courbevoie/164246727.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&makeModelVariant1.makeId=14600&makeModelVariant1.modelId=8&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&negativeFeatures=EXPORT
     
  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10439 joe sackey, Jul 14, 2012
    Excellent information, thanks for sharing!
     
  15. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    #10440 alberto, Jul 15, 2012
    LOL. Who's flattering themselves?

    BTW, I'm not picking a fight. I'm just pointing out that you can't use one set of criteria when it comes to examining and questioning other's views and a different one when it comes to yours. I don't pretend to be the Miura expert that you do. Peace out brother.
     
  16. jimmy

    jimmy Karting

    May 22, 2006
    103
    #10441 jimmy, Jul 15, 2012
    4274? Not sure about those colour coded air filter covers.
     
  17. 430 scuderia

    430 scuderia Guest

    Jun 10, 2008
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    #10442 430 scuderia, Jul 15, 2012
  18. spadge1976

    spadge1976 Karting

    Nov 1, 2010
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    #10443 spadge1976, Jul 15, 2012
    I believe it was a genuine Miura that had the engine removed for the scene where it is pushed over the edge
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10444 joe sackey, Jul 15, 2012
    Sure thing.

    Lets go back to the beginning of our conversation: www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141586971&postcount=10412

    You came on this thread and made a definitive one-word statement that the Miura prototype is "Dead" based on not a single shred of personally-researched information other than to parrot "others" theories, by your own admission.

    My premise is that you ought to do the community (& yourself) a favor and know what you are speaking about before you make such a definitive declaration about such a historically important car, and before you challenge others who have spent years investigating & researching same.

    The truth is, you have no clue what happened to the Miura prototype other than to parrot what others have said, and here you are leading the uninitiated to believe that you have some certain knowledge by your one-word answer. All you have done is perpetuate a myth, and as we know Lamborghini mythology that has circulated for years has turned out to be wrong a significant percentage of the time.

    If all you are going to do is redundantly parrot others' theories, please spare us, they have all been heard before. Tell us something new.

    In fact, if you have made any personal research at all, why not find a publisher and publish it? You will soon find that some aspects of history are subjective, open to interpretation, and have extenuating circumstances.

    As for your flippant remark about pretending to be an expert - I don't suggest I'm any kind of expert, but I do claim to be an enthusiast who over the past 20 years has personally owned 5 Miuras and handled dozens & dozens more. I put together a book http://joesackey.com/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/ simply because I had much material I wanted to share with the community. I submit that it is you who pretends to be an expert with your one-word declaration on the fate of a car whose true disposition you know nothing about.

    Peace out brother? :rolleyes:
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10445 joe sackey, Jul 15, 2012
    I agree.

    By the way a little birdie has told me the good news about your 4812 for which I offer my congratulations. So glad to hear and cant wait to see it when completed!
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Joe Sackey
    #10446 joe sackey, Jul 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    Alberto
    #10447 alberto, Jul 16, 2012
    Yawn. You always revert to attacking people when they challenge you Joe. It's boring and boorish.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #10448 joe sackey, Jul 16, 2012
    Speak for yourself. I'm hardly boring or boorish. I certainly stand my ground when I'm attacked, but call that what you want.

    Those who attack first always seem to cry victim when someone stands up to them. LOL. You did exactly what you're accusing, now that I've stood my ground you cant seem to find a graceful exit.

    Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out, unless you actually have something useful you can verify to contribute here besides parroting others theories.
     
  24. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
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    Aug 22, 2003
    1,176
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    #10449 billnoon, Jul 16, 2012
    Loved the book Joe! Keep up the faith and don't worry about those who worry too much. Your writings, post, help and advice are always appreciated.

    I am hoping 4039 finds a new home in the next week or so as I have just finished inspections on another nice S that I hope will shortly come our way, possibly in time so she can be seen and enjoyed in Monterey by her next caretaker.

    Again my thanks always for your kind help, assistance and the many posts to this site!

    Bill Noon
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #10450 joe sackey, Jul 16, 2012
    Bill, I hope to speak to you before Monterey.

    As for those who worry too much, I'm always ready to engage them in a spirited debate.

    Glad you liked the book, thanks for mentioning it! I cant believe its been out four years now....
     
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