Sanden conversion belt size problems

I took some dimensions from the old York type compressor to get the center line of the belt. After installing the bracket I did the math to find out what size spacers were needed. Made them up from bar stock so I would only have 1 spacer per mounting hole and assembled the unit. No problem with alignment or with pulley interference. As for the belt I measured the length and bought 3 belts in difference sizes. One fit and other 2 were returned. I don't recall the size and would have to see if it is still on the belt. I did this a few years back and have not needed to touch it.

 

Just got the Gates 11m850 today. Too short without installing spacers to the flat adapter plate. I found a Goodyear source for the 11VA0865 (11mm x 865mm) which Gates does not show (offer). Hopefully that will put me in the ballpark.
BTW - my Sanden is an EG7H13. Is that the right compressor???? Another number on it is 178017.

Very frustrating operation so far.............

 

Gee Bob sorry to hear that you having so much difficulty. Is there a difference with Euro cars that is making this tough or is it the belt sizing?

 

I can't see why there would be a difference. The cam belt covers are the same as US cars, no? I'm suspecting there is a difference in the Sanden compressor I received (pulley dia., body size, etc....)

 

I amnot familiar enough with EUro cars to even begin to answer that. Hopefully the next size up Goodyear belt will get you past this.

 

I have a way to get past it now (I think). But it would involve adding spacers between the upper York bracket and flat adapter plate to bring down the Sanden closer to the crank pulley so my latest belt (11M850) will work. I just do not like jury-rigging things with spacers. Besides, I cannot move the Sanden too close to the crank pulley or its pulley will hit the alternator adjustment bracket stud.
None of this is rocket science. But it is not tinker toys either.
So, waiting on the 11AV0865 with fingers crossed.
BTW - I could find NOBODY locally who carries Goodyear belts. Gates, Gates and Gates is all I would get as a reply. The internet is my friend............
:-/

 

I spent a lot of time trying to determine which was THE compressor to get.
This is what I came up with:

* Sanden SD508 model #9285
* Sanden SD709 - Same as the 508 but has 7 cylinders. Some would say this does not matter cause you're cramming in 7 smaller cylinders in the same space you had 5.
* Sanden SD7H15 model #4627 - This replaced the 709.

Pulley on the above compressors is 125mm.

 

Dr.
Same pulley dia. my compressor is about 190mm front to back.
I wonder what EG in my number means? It is not coming up on the Sanden website. Now I'm thinking it may be a copy clone??

 

I used the 4627 which I got on ebay for $125 a few years back.

 

Per Steve Carr "this (4627) is what I put in all the 308/328's that have good+ AC".
Again--
Steve aided a couple of the more successful AC systems documented here on FChat.


Sent from my iPhone
(which probably means I'm sitting at my car, confused)

 

Did that EG come from Retroair? If so I would return it and ask for the correct number. And a sanden plate on it. Hate to see a fake but these fakes are showing up everywhere, oh boy.

 

Actually, I got it through a local repair shop. It was on a plain box with correct fitted packing and the outside marked "Ferrari" in Sharpie with some photocopied looking Retroair installation instructions in the box along with new hose/port fittings ready to crimp on the new hoses. Thus the Retroair connection, if any. So i don't think it came directly from Retroair. The clutch straps are in the correct direction for the required reverse rotation condition. I've asked the shop to explain the situation and number better. It looks too new to be a rebuild. It is under pressure too with sealed caps on the two ports. Just the markings are suspect....

 

The Retroair fittings were all ready to go adapters with shraders. No crimping! Sounds like a copy I am afraid.

 

This is crazy. I cannot believe my engine cam belt cover that the York brakckt bolts to is different than all other 308's. I'm just not getting the right results with this Retro-Air flat plate mounting setup. Just straight bolting in the flat plate and using the 11M875 belt, I get no where near the required tension (OM says 49.7lbs on the Gates cricket) when I bolt the Sanden in like your picture in the first post.

I then got and tried the next Gates 60 deg size down (11M850) and with 1/2" spacers on the York to flat adapter plate (pictured here), I can only get about 20 lbs under full idler pulley tension (!%$#%$#%$#). I'm going to next try 3/8" spacers with the 11M850. If that still does not work I'll try the 11M875 again, this time with the York bracket's rubber bushing lower halves removed (keeping the upper half so the bolts stay centered with shortened metal sleeves) so the flat plate is up against it, which will move the flat plate and Sanden away from the crank pulley another 1/4". So MAYBE I'll get the 11M875 to tension up to spec.

BTW - I finally got the Goodyear 11AV0865 thinking it would be the perfect Gates belt go-between their 850 and 875. Well, that belt is not a 60 deg V. It is a "standard" 40 deg belt (!%$#%#^%$) - a direction which I'm reluctant to go right now given two of three pulleys would not mate well with it.

Side note: I measured the (old) York pulley and it is 150mm. Not sure how that may be negatively affecting the tensioner pulley's ability to tighten the new belt size. I would think the Sanden's smaller 125mm pulley would afford me a bit MORE tension ability.

Stay tuned........
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the differences are between the 2v & Qv,328. the 2v belt cover is wider and the stud location is different from the Qv and 328, how much that effects the A/C conversion in this case I'm not sure, I do know that the OEM sanden brackets will not mount to the 2v covers.

measuring for belt length is fairly easy, the rope method is one way, the other is some basic math. given the crank pulley dia is 91mm and the compressor pulley is 150mm then the length of belt for the pulleys can be calculated at a 180* coverage, so (150xpi)/2= 235.61mm and (91xpi)/2=142.94mm so adding them together we get 378.55mm. find the center to center distance between the crank pulley and the a/c pulley and multiply that by 2. now that's the belt length for just pulley to pulley without calculating the tensioner, for that it requires measuring the offset from the tangent between both pulleys and some trig. as you can see the rope method is faster. a note on the rope method, try and use a rope with the cross section dia of the pulley sheave in question, i.e. an 11mm belt would require the use of an 11mm dia rope, reason is how belts lengths are measured and pulley sheave construction.

I was just the other day considering taking the OEM sanden brackets and modeling up a 'kit' for the both engine variants. I thought someone had done that though, well one more project on the list.

 

the smaller pulley is going to have an effective belt length shorter by 40mm, that's a fair amount that would not be able to be deflected out by the tensioner.

 

I overlapped the picture from Dave with yours Bob. The bracket appears to be of different design coming off the belt cover as well. Similar but different unless it's just the angle and the lighting.
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This is all fine if I could order an exact size custom belt. But I already possess the three closest Gates 60 deg. offerings made. Now I just need to determine which one will work best with my final configuration

 

one thing to consider, the stock belt on the york compressor has to be looped over the pulleys before the hardware at the top is tightened, then the lower bracket is mounted half way through the tightening sequence then the top nuts are fully tightened then the lower mounts and tensioner is finished. at bit of an odd design to start with. I'd try the 850 belt without spacers, loop the belt then tighten the top mounts then adjust the tensioner. has that been tried?

 

I'm determined to solve this and move on. It just is eating up time I could be doing the other things I still have on my plate and parts here on the shelf (shift shaft seals, suspension bushings, sway bar bushings....)

 

SMG - you are reading my mind as I am totally familiar with the York sequence as you described. That was going to be my next step here while I have those things still in position. But, only after dinner and a scotch!

 

FINALLY!!!! I now have a setup that works. Starting with three 3.5" long 3/8" all thread studs (I made) through the York top bracket, I played around with spacers and "C" shims till I started to get the belt snug on the pulleys with the Sanden bolted down snug and checking static tension with my cricket and no tensioner pulley set,. (Tip: I used some small O rings to hold the spacer snug while setting the flat adapter plate into position). When I got to about 35 lbs. Cricket tension I knew I was in the ballpark. The final result was one 1/4" spacer on the bottom York hole and two 1/2" spacers on the upper York holes (photos 1&2) drawn tight to nicely snug up the 11M850 belt. Swinging the tensioner pully to about the mid slot point (photo 3) I get about 50 lbs. Perfect!
I then checked my alternator's mounting clearances and was satisfied.
BTW, not counting the yellow zinc plating, I made two modifications on the Alternator hardware (photos 4, 5 & 6): 1. I welded a small tab on the Alt pivot bolt so I would not have to hold the bolt head later when tightening up things. 2. I reversed the Alt tension bracket so the slot is on the engine side. Maybe it is just me, but it is easier for me to tighten that nut when tensioning down the Alt belt without the lower coolant tube and fuel tank making access difficult.
Now I see a new problem looming. The charging ports on the Sanden are way lower than the York was for service access. I'll have to see how I should route the hoses and what angle of attack the fittings on the compressor should be at to enable connecting my A/C service gauge hoses. I'll start another thread for this issue shortly.
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Great bolt mod.

 

Great work. We ended up moving the lower charging valve to the front of the car for better access.

 

I recently purchased the Retroair compressor upgrade kit for my 308 QV. As you may know, the installation instructions are not that detailed.

Does anyone know where the 3/8" x 1/2" spacer should be installed?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bill