Aussie Testarossa rebuild | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Aussie Testarossa rebuild

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by uzz32soarer, May 1, 2012.

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  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,456
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Robert,

    Understood. Indeed, one would be certainly excited to get their car back on the road after such a horrific failure! That being said some of his posts in another thread come across a lot differently. It may be just me, but I just want to follow your excellent work and progress on your rebuild, as secondary comments (which I am now also guilty of) take away from the focus of your thread.

    Anyway, keep up the fantastic work!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  2. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #177 Melvok, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
    If that question of Sam is cleared now (thanx Robert) ... I will post asap in my own thread (have a look there NOW) or this DIFF thread :)

    There are at least 3 threads about this diff failure, it's worth to at least try and read them all ....
     
  3. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Maybe, one day you my F friends may have a failure like I had in my 512TR ... and suffer the waiting of more than 20 weeks on one stupid part ....

    But: all parts are now there ...... pfffffff!
     
  4. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    #179 uzz32soarer, Jul 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I made a start on shimming my diff tonight.

    First step is to set the pinion backlash. To do this, start off with a shim under the ground down and removable bearing cup on the pinion side of the gearbox. I started with my smallest one first. 2.4mm

    What you are looking for is movement at the outside teeth of the crownwheel of between 0.12mm and 0.17mm (5 thou is close to 0.127mm) My aim was for 0.0052 thou or 0.132mm. To do this you set up a dial gauge indicator on the very tip of the crownwheel tooth and as you rock the crownwheel you can feel (and hear) the slop and this movement is recorded on the dial gauge.

    I worked up through my shims and settled on a 2.78 shim which gave me exactly 0.132mm, just where I wanted to be. More by good luck than good management.

    Next step it to set the bearing preload. You do this by altering the large outer shims under the RHS diff carrier assembly.

    I have very few of these to work with, 0.33, 1.33, 1.6, and 1.78.

    1.78, too tight. 1.78 + 0.33, still too tight. Bugger!

    1.33 + 1.60 too loose by far. With this combination in place I set up the dial gauge to check the end float or how much the diff moved in and out with this combination. Hmmm 20 thou or 0.508mm.

    So I need to remove 1/2 a mm from my stack and then I should at least start to get some preload.

    I'll continue on tomorrow working with shim material and feeler gauges to try to come up with the right number. I'm guessing at 2.04mm shim at this early stage. Stand by>>>>>>>
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  5. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
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    Mike O
    Rob, remember that although you may have the backlash correct as you vary ANY shim, either LHS OR RHS it will effect BOTH backlash AND preload. I have just realised your crown wheel is probably on the diff for good now so it will take some fiddling. I think if I were to do it again I would set the preload with out the Crown and then simply move the whole unit left or right by using the relative same difference thinner shims to get less backlash or same relative thicker for more. There is a tolerance for using used pinion and crown of if I remember 0.17mm which I would not be afraid of taking into account as these boxes do expand a fair amount when hot. Have fun....
     
  6. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    I'm going to struggle Mike. I have nowhere near enough variation in available shims to allow me to do it by the more traditional methods.

    Tried calling you earlier, will try again tomorrow.
     
  7. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #182 uzz32soarer, Jul 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well the diff is in and shimmed up.

    I played with it a bit to get a feel but once I was on top of things it actually took about four hours to do it.

    Factory preload and backlash and a beautiful blue mesh pattern to the crown wheel and pinion teeth.

    A variety of tools required to do this job, but my mechanic loaned me a fantastic yet simple tool produced by SnapOn called a torque meter which was invaluable.

    Here's some pictures of the three places that I took various measurements to double and triple check the bearing preload and the final assembled diff in place.

    I actually didn't have sufficient shims available to complete the large external shim measurement, so as you can see in the pictures I used four sets of feeler gauges that could be screwed apart to extract the various blades. In the picture below you can see four 16 thou (0.4064mm) have been used to calculate the final shim measurement.
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  8. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #184 uzz32soarer, Jul 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    One thing very important for you blokes to note.

    When I started setting bearing preload, there was an area where the diff was binding when I was rotating it. It was nice and easy to rotate and then for a short length it was stupidly tight, like goind from 3 Nm or torque to nearer 15 - 17 Nm required to rotate the diff.

    I couldn't quite get this, so after many tries I blued, rotated and then removed the crown wheel to check pattern on the pinion head and the crown wheel teeth, thinking that either this was causing the issues, or that my bearings were miss aligned for some reason.

    Once refitted without the crown wheel installed, the diff preloaded fine and rotated perfectly smooth.

    Issues with crownwheel I suspected. Not good!!

    So I grabbed a sheet of 10mm industrial float glass that I keep around and I taped three sheets of abrasive paper to the glass. 400#, 800# and 1200# finishes.

    Starting with the 400 dry i did a circular / figure 8 roatation with the rear of the crown wheel on the paper. Hmm, high and low spots. Like WTF is that about.

    Took a while and then I moved up to 800 and 1200 grits in we paper, but eventually the rear of the crownwheel was perfectly flat and gleaming.

    Sure enough, there had been warping of the crown wheel. Probably caused by factory tightening but there was certainly a slight cupping of the rear face and a few bolt holes were high spots.

    Once refitted and torqued to factory spec of 70 Nm, the diff was installed and spun 100% perfectly. All binding dissapeared and the entire job became easier from that point on.

    NEVER trust your old crown wheel. Check it for flat before fitting.
     
  10. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    Phil Worrall
    Who said 40 hours? Great job there Rob great photos as well.
    P
     
  11. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

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    Hi Phil.

    I reckon I may have had an advantage that most installers wouldn't have. With the engine not only out of the car and also out of the frame, to make it even easier, it's upside down on a stand with 100% total access to both sides of the diff. Can't get any easier than that.

    I could change the small shim under the bearing cup and try another in less than two minutes.

    Gotta love it when a plan comes together!
     
  12. Red Head Seeker

    Red Head Seeker Formula 3
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    Apr 27, 2009
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    Hello Robert; GREAT JOB!!!....and VERY HELPFUL with your insights, problem solving, pictures. As Phil mentioned...40 HOURS is a license to STEAL!!!!.....ALL THE BEST!!!!..Mark
     
  13. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    I did ;)

    But of course with all parts brand new (also C & P)....

    My gb builder is watching your observations closely Robert ... building my box NOW !

    He may give (his) observations and advise ... but that will not be this week while he is doing his 40 hrs ....

    Good write-up Robert .... this can motivate the "waiting ones" .... :)
     
  14. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    This raises flags with me. I have never heard of a warped crown wheel.
    I wonder if this might have had anything to do with abnormal side loads on the carrier, causing it's early demise.
     
  15. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Yes, it was certainly interesting. To think that factory torque specs may have actually twisted or distorted the crown wheel to the extent that three of the bolts points had actually pulled. When I started to sand the back of the crown wheel, instantly it was obvious that three or four of the bolt holes were higher.

    Didn't take too much to get it flat, but I'm certainly glad that I did it. The diff ran so much more freely once that was done.
     
  16. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #192 Melvok, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
    Pretty good that you made the observation in time Robert. Could of course not be measured on the old diff ....

    The material of which the crownwheel is made is forged steel imo ... does that steel really (can) get twisted by pulling a few bolts ?

    Did I get it right: is that what we are discussing here ? Is that really possible ? Can it not have been a fault from the beginning ?

    Looks like we need help and info from our steel wizzards here ....

    Side question Robert: were the numbers on the side of your crownwheel the same engraved numbers as in the pinion (because they should be exactly the same) ?
     
  17. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Yes. the crown wheel and pinion are engraved with the same numbers, a matching set.

    And yes, the originally crown wheel was very slightly warped and at least three, if not four of the threaded bolt holes had been pulled upwards causing the crown wheel not to mesh perfectly with the pinion.
     
  18. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #194 uzz32soarer, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #195 uzz32soarer, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #196 uzz32soarer, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

    May 2, 2008
    477
    Melbourne-Australia
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    Dean C
    When you finish yours I'll bring mine over rob.
    You are putting me to shame
     
  22. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
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    Robert Hayden
    I seem to be getting somewhere, but this box has over 1200 pieces that are still required to be fitted back into the jigsaw puzzle.

    I just hope that Alzheimers doesn't set in!
     
  23. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

    May 2, 2008
    477
    Melbourne-Australia
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    Dean C
    Alzheimer's ......hmm...you better put that puzzle back together properly.
    Funny story to be told.
    I once pulled the dash out of a honda.
    When I put it back together I had 27 screws left over.
    Customer commented on the great job I had done and how all the rattles had disappeared
    Lol....
     
  24. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    Better than new ......pfffff what a job Robert ... ;)
     

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