THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

Once again meaningless Bench Racing Bull****.

There are no rules requiring building a cockpit wide enough to fit two three hundred pounders. Ferrari deceided to I didn't.

Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina weighs 2650 lbs. We have re engineered her chassis sub frames and will replace them with Carbon Fiber ones that will drop another 75 lbs and if I wanted more HP would add Turbo's not KERS and easily have 1000 hp at 2600lbs. KERS is a good thing to do for the Planet and in various forms of racing has advantages and does enable Hypercars to get higher mileage ratings but Turbos are a lot lighter HP boosters.

Frankly what interests me is something a bit different. Having driven Ferrari's over 600,000 miles in the rain, sleet and snow I've come to believe a few things. The sponge wrapped in a chamois that served as a defroster in my 275 GTB lost it's charm after a while and the inline heater/blower motor I installed worked a bit better and made the car usable. When my 308 GTB couldn't make the rush hour drive up the Westside Highway in the summer without overheating I cut a Bruce Mclaren radiator exit into it's hood and found it could. Guess what happened when Ferrari saw my car. The next years 308 GTB had the same ducts cut into it's hood. How about when you pick up your new Ferrari and the owners manual is on the passenger seat because it won't fit into the glove box? Digitise it and put it into the nav system. I remember the CEO of Ferrari looking at Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina and asking why Ferrari's didn't yet have nav systems and I did. How about their $4,500 radios that as JC points out are unusable crap. How about Enzo motors running 20 degrees hotter than Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina's engine right at the edge so if it overheats it's very hard to pull over as several have learned at a high cost. 355 Headers? I could go on but the point here is that I would be a LOT happier with new Ferrari's if their engineers actually drove them in the rain, sleet and snow and addressed issues that real drivers may care about. Ever leave a new Ferrari in the rain and come back to find the interior soaked?
How about AC drains that take hours to reach and clean out that drip onto your wife's legs?
Bench Racing Comparos of 0-62 KPH tenths of a second between hypercars seem to interest you but they mean nothing to me.

It's really quite bizarre to me that this year Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus has a real chance to win an FIA World Championship and likely will on September 29TH and The top on the line Ferrari Hypercar won't be able to be turned into a race car that could win ANY FIA 24 Hour Endurance Race in any class what so ever.

It will be interesting to see how with it's TT V8, lighter weight and KERS the new McLaren Supercar will do against the new Enzo on a race course both of them in full as delivered road trim.

 

Hey

The 2014 Le Mans rules actually favor privateers. We are exploring a P 4/5 LMP1. You and your friends want to race one we'll build customers cars as well. We need about 10 Million Euro's. You only live once.

Keep in mind Ferrari will probably take you off of their dance card if you do but as I've found out life goes on...

Best to You, yours Franco,his and your great City!

 

I think you can swing it.

Meanwhile thanks for sharing the thoughts, very much appreciated.

 

And a two year-old ACR.

 

800hp out of 3.8L sounds like a lot.

 

The F1 guys are shooting for 600 from 1.4. Are they staying with 3.8 or boring it out a bit?

 

You just answered a simple 2 sentence statement with a bloody novel, 99% of which had nothing to do with the adove mentioned statements.

sorry don't see exactly where I compared your car to Ferrari's or anything that could be understood as bench racing.

never said anything that would insinuate Ferrari was forced to do, but it is something a car companies does to appease to more customers.

Never said I preferred KERS to turbos...Only that the new car would be lighter without it

Not much to comment except a nice write up, and that I am envious of your car history
I also don't care about Vmax, or 0-62 etc, etc....

Congrats, and best of luck, really. link to championship plz, I'd like to follow it.

Me too...

 

This is an excellent post and what makes it especially valuable (IF THE ITALIANS WOULD DEIGN TO READ IT FOR F**K SAKE) is that it's coming from someone who can and has purchased all/any of Ferrari products.

The problem Jim is that most Ferrari owners are simply not discerning enough to make a fuss. THAT is the problem. Elaborating further, most of the people buying these cars are so bloody grateful for the "supposed privilege" of ownership that they dare not objectively evaluate their car and genuinely confront Ferrari with issues that absolutely SHOULD be addressed. This may bust their own internal delusions.
Ferraris can and are, often wonderful, but they're not perfect and some of their imperfections are unforgivable at the prices they've been sold at and the experience the company really has today.

I've got to say that owners who've purchased a lot of Ferraris (in my case, I won't say I have loads, but I've had few and experienced many many others in depth) is that such owners
a) either wholeheartedly embrace the bull**** Ferrari myth believing that the cars cannot be improved upon - utter utter nonsense.
or
b) HATE Ferraris and move on...

I think Jim, you're somewhere in the middle of that. Just get Maranello to LISTEN to you and we'll all win.

 

Thanks. I think what you've said is very, very true. Ferrari makes great cars but they would be a lot better and much more usable if they addressed the issues that many Ferrari owners find less than stellar.

At the Ring many engineers from companies such as MB, BMW, Porsche, Aston, Toyota, McLaren, Lambo (who were giving Aventador rides to Customers) came by to talk amd look at what we designed. Bosch came by and discussed our KERS and offered and built a very high output alternator for us in a few days when we has issues with our Ferrari one.

There were two Ferrari's racing in a support race before the 24. A 430 GTC and a 458 GT3. The drivers peeked into our pit but unlike Mr. Toyota or Dr Betz didn't say anything and quickly hurried out. Some people really need to cut down on the Kool Aid.

 

Jim, I'm sure you realize this, but essentially what you're saying is that not only did you rebuild the Enzo to significantly better specification/performance eight years after its debut, but by continuing to tinker with the engineering you will probably debut a modified version of P4/5 by Pininfarina which will best Ferrari's replacement efforts for the Enzo a decade later.

You've already pissed them off twice; are you attempting some sort of charm the third time around?

If you build P4/5 by Pininfarina to weigh less than 2600 pounds and produce 1000 horsepower (or more), it will take Ferrari another decade to catch up. Potentially you'll have bragging rights on the Veyron and Huayra.

Someone said something about getting Ferrari's attention. Building P4/5M alongside P4/5CM (and maybe an LMP1 car) just might do it.

Maybe Luca will hire you.

 

Dunno, it was from the article that someone posted so it may just be magazine speculation anyway. I'm wondering if they're going to rev it to hell, put some insane pressure through, or both. But it sure sounds like a Formula 1 engine for the street if those numbers are true.

 

I beleive we are reaching an age where outright performance is slowly going to take a back seat to the actual experience of driving, the experience of owning the car. My reference point is a 599 GTO, its about as much power as one can sensibly use on the street(well we can use it down here because the laws are lets say a bit "variable"), 800-900 bhp just isnt usable to me, its going to be more about the feel of the drive, sound, steering feel, handling, looks.

Usability, Jim brings up an interesting point but also lets be honest here, how many people use Ferrari's as daily drivers, with the 458 they have made great steps forward and I am sure they will continue to do so.

For me the Ferrari experience is not defined by numbers, it never has beem, its that blend of history, the feel of the car on the road, the sound of the engine, the handling/performance, the way people react to it. I couldnt care if something else is 0.1 second faster to 60mph or 5 seconds quicker around a track I am unlikely to ever drive a Ferrari on.

I dont think Ferrari's can be judged objectively, you simply cant, look at a 412P, objectively its just an old racing car, but its isnt, its something intangibly special, the shape, the history, what it symbolizes.

 

275 GTB 65K miles
308 GTB 85K miles
TR 155K+ miles
Maser Coupe 30K miles
ALfa 8C 10K+miles

All daily drivers

 

What year was the 308 GTB?

 

1980

 

The Magazine I saw only said 3.8l V8 598hp with 200 extra added by KERS giving 798hp
If that's the case be interesting to see how they after after 5k of hard driving

Ferrari
Based on a lot of the early talk as much as I love the idea of a V12 the idea of returning to a modern F40.. Gets the blood pumping... I remember magazines and people saying the F40 was a car you only dreamed about and then Ferrari made it.....

I think a lot of the reason Ferrari has changed is because of some of Us....
A lot of people dont understand what a Ferrari really is they just know the name and think they understand...but they have never had the true passion like alot of Us here...I guess for them at some point they had a poster or a mag and said when I have money I want that or more shocking not even that it's a I have money let own a Ferrari or 5 and show I'm the man.. And over time these people in these markets have made Ferrari change to suit a new ideal that is not what a true Ferrari is....

 

How is that bizarre? When have Ferrari supercars ever been built to actually be turned into a racingcar? Even the F40 took a lot of modifying before it became -somewhat- succesfull on the racingtrack. 288GTO, F50 and Enzo never saw battle. Enzo based MC12 did and win in a FIA Championship. Other than that, Ferrari is perfectly capable of building cars that can win 24 hour races. Entering their V8 cars obviously makes more sense. I would love to see the super Ferrari's in true competition, but apparently it doesn't make commercial and sporting sense to them and in the end, the factory decides. And can they really be wrong with the 458 taking Le Mans and Alonso leading the F1 worldchampionship?

 

Many people could build a better car when they have one to start with, or use the big guy's vendors. People do it all the time. Many thanks to those who share their special projects with others.

But few people could build a better car when they start from scratch. Competing with the big guys is tough. McLaren may be one of the few, but their reliability needs to be proven.

 

If we race at Le Mans in 2014 in LMP1 we will build from scratch. All that remains Ferrari in P 4/5 CM is the block, heads (modified) and part of the chassis and we beat all of the McLarens. Sadly no 458 GTC showed up to race either of us. Hopefully they will next year but I doubt it. I also highly doubt that Ferrari will show up at Le Mans in 2014 with an LMP1.

Ferrari hasn't competed at the top level of sports car racing for years. Those lining up to buy the new Enzo don't care so all is good for the time being.

 

Taking Le Mans? Once again Ferrari has not "taken"/finished first overall at Le Mans since 1965. Audi has "taken" Le Mans and likely will for several years to come.

 

Impressive! Looking forward to it Jim!

 

What will be different in 2014 that will make it possible for a non diesel car to aim for overall win? And will your car be open or closed?

 

The 288 was supposedly designed as a homologation run to compete in Group B rallying but the series died prematurely.
The fact that so many GTOs were sold, and more importantly resold at huge premiums, is what set Ferrari on the F40, F50 and Enzo route. Making limited runs of hypercars that sell at huge profits.

 

Why does a class win not count for anything? How is a win in GT any less than a win in LMP1?