F1 ENI MAGYAR NAGYDÍJ 2012: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

BAR/Honda designed BGP001. They also had some lemons, but BGP001 sure wasn't one. Let's just call them the old Tyrrell team from now on for fun. Stefan Bellof drove for them so that automatically makes them cool. But in all seriousness, calling them BAR/Honda or anything close to that is odd considering not a single person from those days works for MB now. If anyone recalls, this time last season MB dedicated a large amount of its resources to W03 and both myself and MB still stated W03 was not going to be the 'it' car, but rather a growing car, which they are certainly doing. I see their tire useage as being no different than Mclaren, Ferrari, or Williams, especially Mclaren though.

the crux of MB this year have been not necessarily the car but rather keeping the silly car together, specifically for Michael. more retirements than any car this year.

And Hamilton was indeed still pushing. You think he wanted to be lapped and/or blue flagged? Noooo


Where is the parading in the streets and 'the sky is falling' talk about F2012 finishing 26 seconds off leader pace? mmhmm. The championship isn't over yet folks. And Button 30 seonds off? AND the fact that Lotus is just 1 point from overtaking Mclaren in the constructors now?

 

Wow. That is an interesting comment...

MB

 

That's not the proximate cause though. The proximate cause was Senna himself. The details of the aftermath of Senna being Senna are irrelavant, but remain incredibly sad.

 

IIRC Senna himself had a bad feeling about that weekend, I agree with T12 there was a freakish element to the whole thing, very sad, Senna changed F1 thereafter.

 

The mechanism of death was bizarre but that's not what's being discussed.

 

First of all, you appear to need counselling - man, I didn't verbally attack you or your family, it is a racecar driver we are talking about.

I haven't missed an F1 race in about 20 years, so that is an incorrect statement.

I don't just POP in to this site, as you may have noticed you arrived before I did here by a short time and I have more posts than you do, so I frequent this site at least as often as you do.

The reason I haven't posted much here recently (as if that matters) is because I have been on the road delivering a 599GTO to a client in Texas, so I have been out of pocket.

My "idol" isn't a race car driver, and if yours is you should realign your goals and priorities. I didn't know you were such ******, but would be glad to meet you at Cars and Coffee sometime and discuss the comments you have made.

It cracks me up that you point out the lack of mechanical reliability of MS's car (which is quite true) when that is EXACTLY what happen to RB while at Ferrari, but I didn't hear you or anyone else jumping in as an apologist for Rubens then, but you do so for MS now. I have been through this many times on Fchat. Rubens can't hold a candle to MS when it comes to driver skill. Never said he could, but MS isn't that good anymore either, and when I chuckle about it people (including you) seem to go into some type of rage.

I can let my feelings be known on this site as much as the next guy, and I have made my feelings known on more than one occassion here.

On the rare occassion when he beats Rosberg I could give a rats ass. He is still tied with Pastor and to me that doesn't impress me since his teammate again is getting more out of the same machinery. Maybe it does you, I don't know, but I don't know that MS is fast. He used to be the best on the planet, and will clearly be known as one of the best all time, but he isn't anymore and you can look at the points standings last year and this year to see that quite clearly as well.

Best,
MB

 

This weekend looked bleak for Ferrari. Its true pace was exposed, 4th best at the moment. No one is saying the WDC is over, not by a LONG shot. Ferrari need upgrades if they're going to maintain the lead...thankfully this break helps. (How many weeks of the break can the factories work?) Button got screwed by bad strategy that got him stuck behind Senna and Fernando. He had the pace to challenge for a podium. The McLaren is a rocketship, as it has been for 90% of the year. Lotus is very fast too and I still think it's the best car.

While Ferrari looked slow, MB looks desperate out there.

 

Concur completely. That crash had nothing to do with his driving and the strange circumstance of the suspension piece going through his helmet is a testament to that oddity.

MB

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. MB had a bad weekend, but I'm hardly throwing in the towel based on that alone. W03 is fast when it's prepared, very similar to the Mclaren in that everything seemingly has to be right, but when it's right it's quick. Ferrari OTOH is sort of blunt in a way that it has a remarkably wide window of performance now. Ferrari had a less than stellar weekend, and I'm certainly not throwing it in for them either.

 

Actually, it had everything to do with his driving. He simply pushed that front end more than it could be pushed at a seemingly simple turn, and it let go. Driver error, nothing broke causing it to happen. Proximate cause was Senna being Senna RIP. It brings tears to my eyes just saying it but it's the truth.

 

Nope:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna


In May 2011, Williams FW16 designer Adrian Newey expressed his views on the accident: "The honest truth is that no one will ever know exactly what happened. There's no doubt the steering column failed and the big question was whether it failed in the accident or did it cause the accident? It had fatigue cracks and would have failed at some point. There is no question that its design was very poor. However, all the evidence suggests the car did not go off the track as a result of steering column failure... If you look at the camera shots, especially from Michael Schumacher's following car, the car didn't understeer off the track. It oversteered which is not consistent with a steering column failure. The rear of the car stepped out and all the data suggests that happened. Ayrton then corrected that by going to 50% throttle which would be consistent with trying to reduce the rear stepping out and then, half-a-second later, he went hard on the brakes. The question then is why did the rear step out? The car bottomed much harder on that second lap which again appears to be unusual because the tyre pressure should have come up by then – which leaves you expecting that the right rear tyre probably picked up a puncture from debris on the track.If I was pushed into picking out a single most likely cause that would be it."

 

I'm talking about the F1 section. If I wanted to rack up 5,000 posts debating the merits of Zaino wax and clear bras I'd do it somewhere else. I'm here to talk about racing.

A quick check at your post history exposes you for what you are: a bitter troll/hater.

Prior to coming in here to dog on Schumacher's performance at this race your last activity in the F1 section was (in order):

1.) The Spanish Grand Prix race thread, yucking it up about Schumacher's crash/penalty
2.) The Bahrain Grand Prix quali thread, again reveling in Michaels's misfortunate with the DRS
3.) The Chinese Grand Prix race thread, going on about how MS is "only one point ahead of Rubens this year and Rubens is racing in a different series" and talking about how "you laughed so hard when MS's wheel fell off that you were blowing milk out of your nose."
4.) The Australian Grand Prix race thread when you were, again, celebrating MS's car failure and saying how he and Rubens were tied on points despite racing in different series. See a trend here?

...and you have the nerve to try and twist this and say *I* need counseling. As you can see, you're not much of an asset here and your posts speak for themselves.

My hero is a race car driver, lots of people's heros are athletes, so what? Who are you to say what my priorities or goals should be? Astounding arrogance.

If that's not supposed to be some kind of threat then I would gladly talk F1.

Rubens didn't have the sort of vitriol aimed at him during his Ferrari tenure that MS fans have had to endure during his comeback every time he makes the slightest mistake.

It's not a rage, it's just pointing out facts to counter your irrational statements. I now know that I shouldn't feed the troll.

Sigh...

 

My memory is a bit foggy but I do remember seeing the car behave oddly at the same spot on the previous lap.

 

Thank you! Great info I never knew of. This was always one of those things I just didn't want to look into too much. It's not like I knew they guy, but he was Beethoven.

Bottom line, Newey doesn't really know either. The above is his opinion. I still believe it was driver error as a puncture would have made itself known, quick. Call me romantic, but somehow Ayrton Senna is not allowed to die due to a tire puncture.

 

+1 *Beautiful* to watch!

I've said before, we were doing British F3 when he was in FF - If we weren't too busy we'd stop and watch the FF final - Always entertaining as they were always bouncing into each other! Then there was Ayrton; Invariably on pole and just ran away from the others - Nobody did that in FF! We *knew*, even back then, we were witnessing a supreme talent. RIP Dude!

Are you sure you said that right?..... Personally, I'd much rather believe he was caught by a puncture than "driver error" - He was just too good to make a mistake like that..... At least what I want to believe.

Dunno if you were into it back in the day; The Italian authorities were legally obligated to initiate an investigation - They dug & dug but never really came to a conclusion. IIRC, Sir Frank & Adrian avoided Italy for at least a couple of years (?) for fear of being arrested for manslaughter. But AFAIK no charges were ever bought. We'll never know for sure, but I'm sticking with a puncture, not driver error.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I really hope this is true, and that Schumacher sticks around for a final year and takes some wins, just to shut the ****ing critics up. It's do or die next year. Apparently.

 

That's amazing you had the privilidge to watch him at such an early time.

I heard an anecdotal story indirectly from none other than Michael Schumacher about Ayrton. He said he saw Ayrton kart racing in Europe many times and that the first times he saw him he was fighting for not more than 5th positions, and then somehow he broke through and started winning races. There was some German fellow who was his arch nemisis though, what on Earth was his name.......grrrr, this is going to irk me all day now. What happened to that guy

 

I believe we will see another step with W04, how big I don't know. Then again, Red Bull took some 5 years before they had their first win! It's a tough game, but Brawn and MB are well ahead of where Red Bull was when they were building the team. Then of course RB6 arrived and the rest is history. And they had Newey and several other brilliant engineers the entire time! Willis was behind much of RB6, and now of course he's with MB. They have the formula, now they need time to simmer.

 

Indeed. He'd sometimes wander into our garage (being F3 we were the "top of the pile" at most races and got to use 'em.) Very humble, quietly spoken, shy and intense is my recollection. I shook his hand and wished him the best a few times.

Also the reason doing a GP support race pretty much sucked btw; We were now schlepping all our kit from nowhere to the pitlane..... Monaco in particular really sucked - Our paddock was in the unlevel, gravel parking lot at the Monaco tennis club. How the hell are we meant to set the thing up on pissed gravel!? Not to mention being ~2miles away from the pitlane - Better not forget anything going into practice.......

Cheers,
Ian

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Fullerton ?

 

I like you and your posts, but in this case, I don't see how you can argue that the MB is not a turd. It most definitely is. The car is just slow. MS is an excellent driver, and so is Rosberg, and they just can't do anything with the car.

In perfect conditions it seems to be able to qualify well, but it doesn't seem there are really any conditions that it performs well in the race.

Maybe if the stars align just right and the team gets the right combination of position + luck + weather + no accidents, they can get a podium, but 9 times out of 10, the car sucks donkey balls.

 

That's awesome.

 

If it was driver error, I don't think it speaks badly of Senna. Anyone who has raced (and I don't mean you haven't) knows that to win you push to 10/10, and sometimes you hit 11 out of 10 and lose control.

Senna was better than just about anyone at staying at 10/10 and being able to save it when he went over the limit.

The accident that killed Senna could have happened to any driver... IMO it wasn't lack of skill that killed him and I know Korr didn't mean that... it was a tragic confluence of unlikely events

 

let's not bring donkey parts into this

I see W03 as a brilliant test bed for what's to come. It's done more than W02 ever had and if the season ends tomorrow I would consider W03 a success. The W03 suspension system is the first of its kind and is sure to birth greater successors. Red Bull took a long long time to get it right, so by their standards, MB are ahead of the game.

 

You need help. Drop me a line the next time you are heading up to C&C and we can talk.

MB