THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

The two 99999 are two different F 50's?

 

Yes.

 

The last few posts in this thread are very interesting.

I personally have never understood why people are so drawn to the mystique of exclusivity. What do I care if there are hundreds or even thousands of people who have the same car I have? If it's something I like and I can afford it, I buy it. Who give's a flying fart if Joe Schmo down the street has one just like it? If there are myriads of people wealthy enough to afford something expensive, why shouldn't they have the ability to enjoy it as well? Or do I think I'm somehow better than they are and hence only I and a few of my friends should be allowed exclusive access to certain things?

Ferrari seems to go to great lengths to keep this aura of extreme exclusivity alive, even though knowledgeable and credible people have proven that this exclusivity is nothing more than a marketing ploy and in reality a lie. (See above posts) Ferrari is in business to sell cars and make money. They are not going to turn down business for the sake of exclusivity. (It might seem like they do, but they don't)

To think that a certain car is so "special" that only certain people should be hand picked to spend $1M+ on is silly. And for grown men (and women) to think that they must jump through hoops just to earn the "privilege" of giving Ferrari their hard earned money is even more silly.

People who buy the F70 are doing Ferrari a favor, not the other way around.

 

So, are you OK in sharing your wife with the guys in the neighborhood?

 

I thought there were 3 of them. Not trying to be cute here, but we had this discussion about 6 months ago and M. Massani chimed in.

I am told, don't know if I can say who, that there are about 150 Apertas, not 80.

 

If you think a material possession is somehow even remotely related to a person with whom you will share the rest of your life with, I cannot help you to understand my point.

My point is that if I have something I like and I enjoy using, why should I care if others get to enjoy something similar as well?

To go with your analogy, it's like saying I enjoy being married to my beautiful wife, but no one else (or very few) should ever have the ability to get married.

 

There are at least 4 cars that share that S/N, possibly more. I was pointing out that there is established photographic proof of two cars wearing the same S/N. There are at least 150 Apertas if not more. Funny enough there was an option that Ferrari offered with Aperta, a plaque that said "**/80", there are two cars that share a plaque that reads 50/80. Ferrari allowed you to choose the number on the plaque.

 

You are correct, but only on a logical level. People don't decide logically unless the stakes are life and death. Look at starving people. What will they do for food? Is there anything that is beneath them? Undignified to sift through garbage? Not if you are starving. At that point, it's pure logic.

For those who have their survival needs met, the decision becomes an emotional one. These are people whose survival needs have been adequately addressed and who are well-fed ie. Ferrari buyers. They are satisfying an emotional need--this is accomplished by fulfilling a life-long dream, a passion, or acknowledgement by others--wanting to feel unique and special and "recognized"--a pseudo- or mini-fame, if you will. Having a one-off, or an experience that is limited to very few, gives this feeling. They will trade significant sums (to most) for this. Ferrari caters to this. So do private jet and yacht decorators and "By appointment only" retailers and plastic surgeons. Most luxury brands do, but they just use price to thin the clientele. Ferrari takes it a step further to the country-club approach, with a "You have to be invited to participate" philosophy.

As long as you have established credibility, ie. your market position, and demand is greater than supply, this will work.

Per Maslow, there would be two higher levels. Next one is where what you think of yourself matters more than what others think. And then there's transcendence, where nothing matters: Ferraris, food, others, yourself, it all just fades and you just pursue enlightenment. Or perhaps you have already achieved it. Nobody knows. For most of us, this is hard to fathom. I have seen a multimillionaire hand out every last cent he owned, bid his (now penniless) family and pets goodbye, and hit the road wrapped in a simple sheet. He did not even have shoes, and the road was very hot. To this day, I don't know who doesn't get it, me or him.

 

For better or for worse Hyper Ferraris have been appreciating assets largely because of their scarcity. If Ferrari makes more than promised their potential value is diminished.

 

I guess if having something exclusive makes some people happy, then I can understand why companies would cater to that. I just don't see why it would make the experience of owning a Ferrari any "better" just because very few people own one. Of course, I don't know why shoes make my wife happy, but I just accept it as a difference in taste. I will never understand it, just like she will never understand my passion for cars.

Now as for demand being greater than supply, I think more than a few posts in this thread have shown that this is nothing more than an illusion in Ferrari's case. People are being duped into believing that they have something very exclusive when it appears that as long as you have the cash you can get one.

 

But as the last few posts in this thread have shown, they DO make more than what is promised. Basically they make as many as they can sell.

 

Forgive my ignorance, is S/N the same as VIN? If so, wouldn't having multiple cars with the same VIN cause havoc with insurance companies or any other company that keeps track of a vehicle's VIN's? Wouldn't there be the possibility of having 2 registered owners of a car with the same VIN in the same state? Maybe not during the initial sales of the cars, but possibly down the road after cars get traded and re-sold?

 

Interesting info, but no proof there are 400+ Enzos.

 

Napolis said he himself has a car with a duplicate S/N. I don't think he was talking about an Enzo, but if they've done it once, well...

 

No. S/N (serial number) and VIN are different things for example ZFF67NFA1B0177261 and ZFF67NFB1B0177261 would/could be two different 458s. The serial number part is 177261 the rest is for identifying country of origin, model year, region specification etc.

 

Got it. So it's pretty easy to get away with then as long as no one starts matching up the last 6 digits!

But normally a car company keeps the last 6 digits of the VIN (the serial number) unique for each car of an entire model run, is that right? Or does this sort of thing happen all the time?

 

Bill,

I can see how you feel about this, having spoken in person to somebody at Maranello who confirmed that the production run comprised 399 + 1 Enzos.

Yes, the Pope's Enzo was officially the last (& highest) production chassis number according to Ferrari SpA.

But, remember you are thinking of Enzo PRODUCTION. Production (official) + post-production (unofficial) is what takes the number closer to 500 cars made by the factory.

You also have to remember that the manufacture of post-production cars is a long-standing Italian car manufacturer's tradition from the 1950s onwards. There is nothing unusual about it, and, in a charming Italian sort of way, nobody is wrong because they can tell you with a straight face that Enzo production comprised just 399 + 1 cars, meanwhile they have also accommodated a boat-load of loyal customers who for one reason or another desired another car, or a new car using the old chassis number

When I did a lot of research on Italian car factories for my Miura book, I realized all this was perfectly normal. Welcome to the world of Ferrari et al. I think we have to remember that nobody needs a Ferrari in the way that we need a utility car, so Ferrari can afford to act uniquely in taking care of their clients needs and keeping desire high. Because that's exactly what the passion to own a Ferrari is: a desire, not a need. If they have to have 2 sets of numbers to keep everybody happy, then guess what?

A long time ago, the late TC Browne (publisher of the Sports Car Graphic) borrowed Mark Twain's line and modified it a bit to say: "There are lies, damned lies, and then there are car manufacturer's statistics".

Hope you are well.

 

Well said. I just think it's funny that people make such a big fuss about how many cars there are.

 

Your thinking is quite logical.

But, I think you will feel differently about exclusivity as it relates to your Ferrari Supercar if you have just spent $1.5 million on an out-of-production Enzo. At that point, your interest in that car's exclusivity will be increased if not just for reasons of present & future value alone.

When you spend $1.5 million on a Ferrari, logic has long since gone out of the window. Its a move motivated by passion, desire, personal satisfaction, exclusivity etc.

 

Nice to hear from you Joe! I do suspect there are some pre- and post-production cars. But I haven't seen really good evidence for that. Have you? Duplicate VINs in the US would set off alarms.

 

Yes indeed.

The way it has been explained to me is that this 99999 number was treated as a prototype or preproduction ID and was assigned to/loaned to several cars in addition to the real 99999 - don't ask!

But Ferrari has a solution because they have discretion to re-number a pre-production or production car

 

Oh yes, there are definitely some post-production cars! For example: a crashed Enzo sent back to the factory could emerge with a newly-assigned identity, and accordingly, it must be treated as a new car, because in reality, it almost always is, given the materials with which the chassis were built. Since this is occurring well after production ended, strictly speaking its a post-production car.

Where people muddy up this debate is by failing to clarify production or post-production.

In Ferrari's eyes they ended production at 400 cars (they just failed to send us the announcement!), so make sure you say "400 production cars" and you are on solid ground I believe.

As for post-production cars, they were making them as recently as 2008 I believe.

I can give you another type of example of Ferrari SpA using production discretion that stretches way back to the 288 GTO: just 200 were required for FIA Homologation, and I have the papers certifying that. However, rich guys, a few Princes and the odd F1 racing driver wanted one too so, another 72, plus another few sworn to secrecy were built. Everybody was happy!

 

If all units sell, then demand is indeed greater than supply. It may not be as great as predicted, but it still exceeds supply.

Not sure I follow your logic in saying that it's an illusion. If that was the case, there would be unsold inventory at dealers and cars would not fetch a premium, or retain their value? Why do you think it's an illusion? Are there new cars that can be bought below MSRP?

 

i wonder how many cars in China has the plate 8 and 18