THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

In the case of the Scuderia there were. I bought a new one from an Authorised dealer for 40K under msrp. Years ago I bought a new 308 GTBi from an authorised dealer for 5K under msrp. which on a percentage basis was money.

Ferrari made at least 491 Enzo's, 4 F50's with the same vin# and almost 2X as many Apertas as they claimed they did. Obviously the demand was there for those. IMO they way underpriced the Enzo based on demand and the fact that some were willing to pay 2X msrp. to get one. I had a long talk with the then CEO JT about Ferrari Pricing and gave him a lot of data about what 599's were selling for in the flippers market in the US. In the past they simply made more cars (491+Enzos) to get more more. With the new one they're raising the price a lot compared to the Enzo but I agree with Michael in that if people want one they will build more than they say they will as evidenced by what they've done in the past. The two Apertas with the same "50 of 80" plaques prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that what's printed on these plaques means nothing.

 

All of them.

 

MS and Carbon always refer to the number as the total number of Enzo's that Ferrari produced. "491+" The Fchatter who wound up with the "last" Enzo referred to it as a 2008 and claimed Ferrari Classiche certified it as a "2008".

 

this logic would do very well in asia, especially chinese market. they don't like second hand cars, give 4 allocation only make them bid auction style. then sell extra ones to whoever got a few suitcase of cash as VIP order 1/1

 

For those who value and want a truly ' rare but modern Ferrari' there is the factory one off program.

Eric Clapton's car is the most recent example of how to have your own one of a kind.

Although his car is based on the 458, I suppose Ferrari would do a one off based on their F70.

Of course Napolis was way ahead of the curve when he did this on his own. But well heeled buyers like the Sultan of B were able to order custom cars through the factory even before Napolis.

 

I believe it was Pininfarina who built the custom cars for the Sultan. 456 convertibles come to mind and station wagons long before the FF was thought of.

Another convertible that would have been nice to duplicate was the Ferrari Pininfarina Rossa of 2000. Take one 550 chassis add custom body and interior for the perfect result. Too bad there are no brand new 550 donation cars sitting around to play with...
CH
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Well you could buy an Aperta (expensive) and then modify.

And yes I recall seeing pictures of one of those station wagons and chop top 456!

 

i don't know how much time and expertise Sultan put into his custom cars.

 

If everyone that wants one and can afford one can purchase one, then supply is equal to demand. Not sure how demand would exceed supply. If I build 400 cars and after I sell them all, 100 additional customers come and I build 100 more cars and sell those, supply is exactly equal to demand. (Unless my math is wrong somewhere)

The illusion I am referring to is this: The whole premise behind exclusivity is that I have something that only a very few privileged people can get. Even if you have the money you will most likely not be able to purchase what I have, if it is indeed exclusive.

Ferrari made a huge deal about the fact that only 399 Enzo's were going to be built and that only "select" customers would be able to purchase them. Well it turns out there's almost 500 of them out there because people with cash showed up and Ferrari built more cars to sell to them.

People who bought into the whole "I'm one of the lucky 399" premise were basically lied to. There was nothing "special" about them at all. If you had the money, it appears you got a car.

 

It would be interesting if Ferrari had an Enzo reunion and more than 400 cars showed up.

 

I don't know about you guys but I wish they make a version like the Aventador J..

 

Which two? Swaters' car is in the U.S.; Locale of the 2nd?

 

If they command a premium, then demand is greater than supply. Enzos command a premium.

 

It's a perception, and a very real one. It may not be as exclusive as the original production run claim of 399 would have you believe, but it's not zero either. 1 out 400 or 1 out of 500, it scarcely makes a difference. If it mattered to someone, they would drop out of the market. It didn't matter to that degree to enough people, so demand stayed above original asking price. It's still up there, isn't it?

I am with you--I don't care who else owns one if I have something that I like. But logic does not override most people's instincts. Many of those who can afford Enzos still rely on that.

Price is dependent on both demand and supply, so limiting the supply does move one up the curve to a higher price point. Too many people care about these things, and it goes back to our evolutionary roots. It's really quite stupid, because owning a Ferrari is not a fight for survival, but our behaviours in all walks of life, no matter how evolved, are influenced by that instinct.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but with a very special commodity like an Enzo or F70, there are some other factors besides supply.

What would be the effect of the pricing of an Enzo if the F70 were priced at 700K???

 

i totally understand your point, but the thing is if Ferrari increased it productity to the level where all demand was met, who would go for a used one? Ferrari did exactly what you asked with their 2+2, all customers' demand was met. what happened? you bought a brand new 612 and 1 year later almost half of its value were gone.

another example is lambo, the demand and supply for gallado is pretty much equal. when you brought a new gallado, one year later some 20% of the MRSP you paid was gone.
However, with Ferrari, you buy a 458 and a year later you can sell it for MRSP, which one do you prefer?

 

I see your point. I was basing exclusivity solely on a limited number basis with production runs sticking to that number even if more customers show up with cash in hand.

But if you are basing exclusivity solely on the fact that the market is willing to pay a premium, then a mid-1990's Toyota Supra would qualify. A good example can still fetch more than what MSRP was back in it's day. But I would hardly classify that car as exclusive. Toyota built as many as they could sell and then some.

But I do see your point. I was just looking at exclusivity through different colored lenses I guess.

 

I see what you're saying. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this:

So many people are wondering what the "qualifications" are going to be for purchasing the new F70, giving the impression that even if you had the money, you would not be able to purchase one unless Ferrari gives you its blessing.

I would be willing to bet however that if you showed up to a Ferrari dealer with cash in hand and were willing to wait until all the "qualified" people got their cars, that you would get one too. And I'm not talking about a used one either. I have a suspicion that if you have the dough, you could get a new one, spec'ed the way you want it.

Am I crazy? (Don't answer that)

 

I don't think you are and I also think there will be some who get one who will try to flip it immediately including Dealers who use "Beards" to do exactly this.

 

Why not a SP 599 Aperta ? ? That would be very cool.

 

If its a known practice is the factory turning a blind eye?

 

I see what you're saying, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying that Ferrari DID increase productivity to where all demand was met. Maybe some people just assumed that they would not be able to get a new Enzo through their dealers and so they were willing to pay 2X MSRP to get a used one, but the fact of the matter is that Ferrari made more cars than what they said they were going to make in order to keep their customers happy.

Obviously there aren't that many Enzo's, F50's, etc... out there compared to other cars, so if you want one now, you have to be willing to pay. But the same can be said for just about any desirable car that is no longer in production. Well restored American muscle cars go for very good money and there was nothing exclusive about them. The factories built as many as they could sell.

My point is that the exclusivity aspect is more marketing ploy than actual fact. I think some people are confusing waiting for a car to be built with demand being greater than supply. If you look through this forum, you will see many stories of customers that got their 458's EARLIER than what the dealer had initially told them. Why? Probably because a large portion of the people on the so called "waiting lists" were bogus customers. 2 year wait times suddenly became 9 months or even less once it came time to pay up. These are not isolated cases.

Let me ask you this: Do you honestly believe that Ferrari would stop production of the 458 before it fulfilled all of its confirmed orders? Dealers might tell you that they will, but I seriously doubt that is true. It doesn't make good business sense.

As for the value of the 612, I think that has more to do with many factors other than meeting customer demands. Customers got their cars quickly because frankly, not many people ordered one! Long wait times are simply a result of slow production methods, not necessarily because they are not going to make as many as they can sell. If 2,000 people (I'm just throwing a number out there) put in orders for a 458 as soon as it became available, then of course there are going to be some that will have to wait their turn to get theirs. It doesn't mean that Ferrari is going to make less cars than what they have orders for.

I may be completely wrong, but I honestly don't think I'm far off from reality.

 

Someone said something very intriguing to me earlier in this thread. I believe "Tool-Fan" mentioned Ferrari subbing out F40 production. Is it possible a practice of subbing out exists and when the Factory has completed it's run of whatever the official number is, than at this point it's secretly subbed out to someone else to produce the off the record cars.....?

 

Yes, because it's what ends up bringing the values of their cars up so much...

 

I seriously doubt they could keep something like that secret in today's Twitter and Facebook age.

But I could be wrong.

Plus what would be the reason to do so? The story is they subbed out the F40 production so they could keep up with demand not to keep actual production numbers secret. Correct?