Gilles Villeneuve 30 years on

I have contributed to an existing GV thread, the one about Jacques driving dad's 312 T4, but feel that I wasn't getting the type of responses I had hoped for.
As I had hosted some pictures from a European motor sports car dealer showing what is claimed to be a later 126C2 and that has obviously been called into question, but that wasn't the point of the topic I wished to discuss.
I am reposting what I stated in my response on that thread as I had hoped to discuss the topics I had raised in the main body of my post.
That I have virtually always been an ardent Ferrari fan whether it be road cars, sports prototypes and lovingly F1, has been a constant in my life since I arrived in Europe at the tender age of 11 years of age courtesy of the US Navy and my late fathers assignment.
So here is the 'meat' from the sandwich as it were:
The July issue of Motorsport covers the 30th anniversary of Gilles passing in some detail.
Gilles whom I saw drive only once, at qualifying for the 1981 British Grand Prix.
I had to fly to Saudia Arabia for work the next day unfortunately.
I was watching Gilles with the massively cumbersome 126CK and each lap you could hear the slick Michelin's absolutely squealing in protest unlike any of the other chassis. One one unforgettable lap he spun the car and barely lost any speed at all continuing as if nothing had happened to the great applause of the crowd.
I have never read of this event in any of the race reports post that event and no photographs have surfaced capturing the event.
The natural talent of proprioception which has been discussed as the ability to judge absolutely precisely one's positioning and especially with abrupt changes of direction.
This was a relatively narrow track, not a spin and win like Danny Sullivan's at Indy a much different scenario.
Gilles has been called a magician an acrobat clearly working without a net, but he was much more complex and deep than usually given credit for.
That he would 'risk' the safety of his wife or anyone driving on the road with him, is debatable.
The flying of the helicopter on empty tanks for greater speed and maneuvers over trees before landing, ect., has drawn criticism.
Gilles was from another era, his skill and natural ability easily compare him to a Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, ect.
The thought that Didier Pironi, though a brilliant pilote, was the equal or quicker than Gilles in equal cars I cannot agree with.
Gilles himself stated, "I think I have proved if I want to stay ahead of the other car (Ferrari) in equal cars, that this was proven.
In reference to San Marino 1982, yes Pironi took the advantage, Gilles was a man of his word and he was betrayed by Ferrari post the race and by his teammate.
Much has been attributed to the psyche of Gilles in the last weeks of his life pre-Zolder.
His wife at the celebration arranged by Jonathon Giacobazzi the weekend prior to the actual anniversary, stated:
"Gilles had great relationships with both Reutemann and Scheckter," said Joann.
"The only problem was with Pironi. Quite early on I said, "Don't trust him' and Gilles said, "You don't know him...' I said, I know - but don't trust him'. That was why he was so upset after Imola - he had trusted Pironi, and betrayal was something he simply couldn't understand..."
"Looking back at the last weeks of Gilles life he really did feel betrayed. Betrayed by Pironi, by Piccinini, by Ferrari. In Gilles mind he had helped Scheckter win (in '79), which was fine.
He had no problem doing it. But he also felt in return if you have an agreement with someone you keep to it. And you don't have to have a contract, a handshake is fine.
And he had that agreement with Pironi, so he never thought it would happen.
Then Piccinini, for some reason, let it go.
He was furious, very angry - but Gilles was the kind of person who couldn't keep anger alive. It was a case of 'Oh, I have to remember that I never want to speak to these people ever again'.
Because naturally he would forget. By Zolder he had calmed down a bit. The other thing to remember is that once Gilles was in the car he was in a different zone. Everything disapeared, whether it be anger or hunger or whatever.
So did he die in a red mist of fury?
I would prefer to think no."
This clarified a lot for me personally.
As far as the issue of Jacques not choosing to mention his dad much at all during his active racing career, that was his choice.
Obviously he felt the pressure of comparison to his late father, but he chooses to explain that he had always wanted to race since he was very young watching his dad's amazing feats.
I once almost got into a punch up at an IMSA race at Watkins Glen over Gilles brother, Jacques. I don't remember the exact year, mid eighties I believe, the Holbert years.
I distinctly remember mentioning a direct quote from Gilles I had read from my years in London in the English motoring press. He stated, after his brothers attempts at F1, "MY brother will always be slower than me, full stop", or words to that effect.
This was overheard by some Canadian fans who challenged me verbally. They couldn't deny it was true.
I saw Gilles brother there that day and many times passed by Jochen Mass.
I cannot hold him responsible for the accident other than being a mobile chicane in the March and Gilles had actually commented on that particular March getting in his way earlier in practice!
The absolute absurdity of the ground effects and the tyre rules for qually back then, plus the worse than a go kart lack of suspension movement and all aero grip back then with mechanical grip (seat of the pants) absolutely missing.
That Mass would move out of the racing line not expecting Gilles to take that exact track is a racing error.
When it is your time, it is your time unfortunately and the dreadful circumstances of these relatively primitive carbon fibre cars, though Harvey Postlethwaite was a brilliant designer.
That a car would somersault into the air like an airplane and dive nose down into the sand, it would be difficult for any of the chassis to survive this deacceleration intact to any degree.
I digress but since as a young boy first interested in GP racing after having moved to London in 1966, Jimmy Clark was and still is a great hero of mine.
When he died in that senseless race at Hockenheim in a F2 race when he should have been racing the Len Bailey Ford Prototype in the UK that weekend.
It was then that I knew that my heroes could die.
Later I admired Chris Amon, Jackie Stewart to a lesser degree.
Not until the appearance of young Gilles did I feel that the impossible could happen.
Sure modern drivers are very skilled, Alonso in particular, and even Massa pre- accident, please no long Massa thread!!
Ayrton Senna during his life I felt I had misjudged him later.
I have lot's to say on the subject of Gilles following him closely in England throughout his career, but that's all I have right now.
I can already tell the main protagonists in this chess game of forum banter.
Obviously my bias is in my forum handle, but I am open minded believe it or not.
Gilles by his own admission was not without faults.
The excellent biography by Gerald Donaldson after Gilles passing was very revealing especially concerning the Pironi years and the effect he had on Gilles both on and mostly off the racetrack.
Following GV's career from his first starts in F1 and hearing from those raving after racing him in Formula Atlantic at Trois Rivie'res, people like James Hunt for one and others I became enthralled.
Again I felt the 'magic' I always associated with my previous hero the brilliant Jimmy Clark.
Those these two couldn't be more diametrically opposed they shared a natural gift.
Jimmy a gentleman sheep farmer who discovered a love for hillclimbs and local level amateur motorsport and Gilles who lived and breathed machines and going fast.
His early exploits racing his various cheap cars and eventually his father Seville's family car which was so pranged up he couldn't explain it away.
When I was following Jim Clark in F1, one just assumed he would pole and pull away effortlessly and win and the Lotus had a reputation of falling apart just post the checkered flag as per Colin Chapman's design mantra!
In the case of Clark, the superiority of his various Loti, whether Coventry Climax (forklift based engine) or later the all conquering Ford DFV, many say the car was a large percentage of his success.
This is rubbish and Clark proved his talent in Lotus Cortina's, attempted the RAC Rally, drove the Lotus 40 sports racer, his unbelievable Indianapolis exploits paving the way for history to be made and the creation of the modern pit stop as we know it with the help of the Wood Brothers. His Nascar attempts were not as successfull, but Jim had a road going Galaxie 500 on Great Britain, so he knew his way around a larger 'saloon car'.
Gilles on the other hand had the ice racing and snowmobile racing to hone his skills.
Following Jimmy form about age 10 till his terrible death in 1968 in that insignificant F2 race at the then lethal Hockenheim circuit in that Lotus 48, which appeared to be made of cardboard, but an off into the forest due to the tyre going down in the wet and even his unparalleled car control could not avoid the lottery of death that was that wet forest and the very unforgiving trees.
Then I knew at that tender age that racing drivers could die.
Sure, the spectacular Indy car fiery crashes and the lethal USAC at that time showed how close death could be. Particularly Pennsylvania's Langhorne track.
I really did not have any real heroes I followed after that April 1968.
I had been a fan if Ickx and Amon being Ferrari drivers, poor Lorenzo Bandini and Dan Gurney.
So not until the late seventies with the emergence of Gilles did I feel that magic feeling.
You know your guy is the fastest, maybe without the ideal chassis or tyres.
Funny how that has come full circle in 2012 with designed in 'drop off' of the various Pirelli's!
Sure Fred Alonso is a great driver, has a real feel for the car and is great development driver. I am faithfully following Ferrari's #1 driver.
But when Gilles was alive and what he accomplished in such a short career is still to this day remarkable.
His determined spirit, bringing his family with him in the motor home, with his beloved milk shakes and cheeseburgers that Joann would prepare for him and he would live with his crew virtually, the mechanics gave their all for him as he reciprocated for them and us.
The speed boats, Ford Bronco with a 427 c.i. engine and his various 'toys', leading to his beloved Agusta helicopter, showed that speed and risk taking were relaxation activities for Gilles it seemed.
Certainly certain English motor sport journalists championed Gilles' career, but it needed to be told.
One cannot romanticize too much the brief life of this amazing top Canadian sportsman.
His influence is still felt to this day.
His championing of F1 safety, making him a latter day Jackie Stewart cannot be overemphasized.
Gilles was not afraid to take on the powers that were. The Balestere days were certainly different that of the South London used car salesman Bernie Ecclestone, but Gilles known as being fearless certainly often discussed his mortality and that drivers were risking their lives needlessly in the 900-1000HP qualifying trim glorified ground effects 'go carts' with their total aero grip and lack of any mechanical grip in the equation until it was too late.
Those 2-3 laps at best Goodyears for qualification, it makes me shuddder to think of the 3rd gear corners now being taken flat out and even God couldn't seem to help you if those tires fell off as the driver had no warning.
Do I think that the very factors Gilles was trying to eliminate with the GPDA lock out in South Africa contributed to his death...yes definitely.
Did GV have to make that split second decision to try and pass off line to get my Jochen Mass moving March chicane at the Terlamenbocht.
Jochen cruising cooling his tyres, another ridiculous state of affairs, moved right expecting GV to pass on the left, yet he was surprised as he watched in his mirror the Ferrari move the same way and virtually run him over.
This lead to the airplane crash on the ground that robbed F1 and the world of a driver, we don't appear to see the likes of any time soon.
AS I mentioned earlier in the Nigel Roebuck interview with Joann (Joanna), she says that sure GV wanted to beat Pironi's slightly faster time and it was his last opportunity, but the official inquiry blamed driver error on Gilles part in the 'accident.'
This needless fatality though wholly different from that rainy day in Hockenheim many years earlier, was just as senseless.
The death of Patrick Depallier at a high speed corner also probably could have been alleviated by the circuit design mostly, but still.
Here is a site that describes that fateful day:
http://www.one18racing.com/the_last_day.htm
I was up as far north as one can get before Scotland in Cumbria when the BBC news showed the horrific Belgian TV feed.
Needless to say as the news grew grimmer I sank quite a few pints that night, stricken with unimaginable grief, I just refused to believe it had happened.
After viewing so many terrible crashes in the past, I knew that their was no hope.
Being on life support with out a broken bone in the rest of his body, the Atlanto-Axial fracture of the base of the spinal cord, basically it being rammed up into the base of the skull by the unimaginable forces of that massive deceleration as the car rammed nose first into the unforgiving sand.
Much has been bandied about about the fragility of the 126C2 design, but extensive crash testing post the accident showed the chassis to survive most 'normal' accidents, front end deformation, ect.
Not one chassis racing that day would have stayed in one piece with the unfortunate circumstances that day.
Much blame was laid at HP's doorstep the young Englishman's Hexcel carbon-fibre design.
It was miles above it's predecessor the 126CK, but these were early days back then.
I do not wish to dwell in this thread on the most horrific death of Gilles, but to celebrate his life and achievements.
When he raced the Italian Airforce's F-104 Starfighter, which Gilles beat twice, in the wingless Ferrari.
Gilles named the Italian pilot as the bravest one as he had to take off each run whereas Gilles spun the car out to slow down, to the great thrill of the crowd.
I wish there existed video of him doing this on the runway, I think there is some of the initial race.
Gilles said the front end of the Ferrari almost achieved aircraft status by the end of the runs!!
There is so much information that I have from various sources back then. All my Autosport magazines, Motoring News, even a Cars and Cars Conversion 1980 article about a GV test session at Fiorano which is fascinating.
Yesterday I watched my DVD copy of the Gilles Villeneuve VHS video I made: Formula Villeneuve on the occasion of my 58th birthday.
Seeing the crash, these days I am moved to tears every time I see it, which isn't that often.
Whether Gilles was 11 or 9 seconds faster than Scheckter's fastest time at Watkins Glen in 1979 is irrelevant.
How I wish we had so much more video from those days than the almost boring at times slot car like in cars from the current crop.
Don't misunderstand me, I relize these current cars are like rocket ships on the ground, braking, accelerating and changing direction with uncanny speed.
Just would love to have had cameras on GV's laps at the Glen back then.
I have mentioned his spin and carry on in qually for the 1984 British GP at Silverstone, which apparently I was the only one to write about witnessing so far, but will never forget it.
As I had to miss the next days GP, when GV spun into the catch fencing (what a primeval concept that was, Alan Jones also taking to it to avoid Gilles.
He wasn't really mad, as he said any bloke who is trying that hard you can't fault him. He was very gracious at the time and he and Gilles had quite the battles, with the superior Williams chassis vrs Gilles and his falling off Michelin's.
The Ferrari chassis tearing them up at an alarming rate.
So I will dig out my little gems from back then. There are great Gilles quotes I still can remember from back then and hope to share them here.
I have heard every anti-Villeneuve issue that exists so probably will hear them here.
I can discuss why Gilles wasn't perfect, but who is in reality.
He was a pure racing driver who lived for every lap and could wring the best out of the cars given to him.
Plus watching the old videos, his blazing starts, even in the normally aspirated cars are just incredible.
So GV fans and I know there are massive amounts here, let's hear remembrances from you and look forward to some great info and conversation.
Thanks for listening.
GV27TIFOSI

 

Well said. I think your post states it all perfectly, and I agree 100%. Thanks for the comments.

 

Gilles 27 thank you for your kind words, I wish I could edit my post as I today find many glaring errors!!
It is from my heart that I speak when I discuss Gilles, what a thrill it must have been to race him wheel to wheel!
I will as promised get out my Villeneuve data and untold stories. It is my intent to have a tribute thread amongst the piranha fish type F1 threads.
I will admit that I still harbor the romantic style interpretation of my early F1 fan days.
Though the cars developed into monsters at the end of Gilles career, he often spoke of going back to the Formula 5000 days, where the aluminum block V-8's stuffed in a McLaren or Lola chassis would sort out the men from the boys. They would have huge tyres and way too much power for the chassis. This would provide spectacular racing, pure racing and to me that is what Gilles represented.
Now that I am subscribed I feel part of the club.
Please feel free to contribute memories and stories from the days of Gilles. This thread is in his honor and I am proud to be a part of it!!
GV27TIFOSI

 

My first F1 Hero, and probably the fastest driver ever, also probably the most innocent. Gerald Donaldson wrote a great book on him. Nigel Robeuck described him best, any Anti Gilles comments are usually from Stat Freaks who don't squat about F1.

 

Gilles died when I was barely 6. But I remember my father being very fond of the guy and when I was really little he used to compare me to him and tell me that we looked alike. I believe it to be more of a wishful thinking on fathers part, but it doesn't matter. Over the years I have dug up every single video I could find and read as much as I could get access to about Gilles. Never witnessed his racecraft in person, but to me he will always remain the greatest and I don't care what the stats are.
I will definitely follow this thread with great interest and I hope to learn a lot from it.

 

To me Gilles is everything a driver should be, there will never be anyone as good as him, and to me that is it. Ferrari was my first love and Gilles my second one, i am happy i never saw them apart because it would be very difficult to watch Gilles driving something else than a red car...i latter experienced that with Alesi (My favourite since Gilles departure) and it wasn´t pleasent. I always looked for more pictures and videos from Gilles, and i have quite a few, many of them already posted on other threads but i really think we should bring everything to this one, to try and show to those who don´t know Gilles that well, or to those who would like to remenber why Gilles was the greatest of all times.

 

At least most of the crap Alesi drove later in his career was Ferrari powered.

EDIT: Did we really need another Gilles Villeneuve thread? This could have been posted in the current one. Also GV27TIFOSI - try to use paragraphs in the future, I read all that, interesting accounts and thanks for posting, but it made my eyes bleed.

 

+1

Did he reference F5000 cars though? My memory (somewhat "dodgy" at best as we know ) recalls those comments as being in response to the age old "problem" that there's no overtaking in F1 and what would he do about it. IIRC, he answered something like "the biggest problem is the braking distances are now so short that it's almost impossible to outbrake anyone. Leave the power the same, but put 'em all on F3 tires and we'll see some overtaking due to vastly increased braking distances......"

Cheers,
Ian

 

Firstly, what a show Jimmy -v- Gilles would have been! Totally different styles, yet both sublimely quick - Often times *visibly* quicker than anyone else.

Anyway, the characterization of the fateful F2 race as "senseless" and a "minor event" is something of a myth. He couldn't drive the BOAC 1000KM due to contractual issues with Firestone. Further;

A pretty impressive lineup IMO! And also remember that back then most of them drove in multiple series - I recall Jimmy jumping out of his Cortina and pretty much straight into the Lotus at Brands when I was *very* young.......

Cheers,
Ian
Source; Wikipedia btw.

 

Paragraphs are my greatest weakness, though people still wade through my writing to get there.
I actually got an A+ in my college level English course during my nursing school prerequisites.
that was in 1994 and a lot has happened since then.
This has been pointed out to me before.
It is something I am aware of thank you.

The way I write is emotionally based and requires editing post experience, whereas like in my guitar playing I don't go back and massage it.
http://www.bobbrooke.com/WritersCorner/paragraphswhentouse.htm
But will attempt to make my posts readable, thanks for the feedback and the enthusiasm for the thread and yes we do need another GV thread if that's ok with you as I have just joined membership and I am having my turn, is that alright?
GV27TIFOSI

 

You well may be correct Ian, my memory as well as my paragraph organization needs work..
Long time ago now...
GV27TIFOSI

 

Also the down under Tasman series in New Zealand.
GV27TIFOSI

 

Please accept the following criticism as positive and not "piling on"......

TBH, I've got to agree with TUSA on your (lack of) formatting; Both paragraphs and sentences - It seems you hit "return" after every sentence - Not necessary, let the 'puter word wrap for you. Then, when you move on, pop a blank line in to start a new paragraph and everything will get easier to read.

As for the necessity of another thread; Why not? It's Gilles we're talking about after all! He can have as many threads as he wants!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Thanks Ian, you are absolutely right about me hitting the enter button.
Points well taken and thank you for your thread support.

There are many here who are major GV fans and this thread is for them and the celebration of a Ferrari driver who ate drank and lived his 'job' and was supremely dedicated. Let's applaud that and keep his memory alive.

GV27TIFOSI

 

YoucouldmumblealwaysmumbletrythemumbleKimiamfadingoutstyle.....mumble..

 

Tosser! [You, not Kimi!]

TBH, I don't really get this "criticism" of Kimi - He's soft spoken and talking a second language - I honestly have no problem understanding him and his very dry humor.....

"I was taking a ****!....."
"I think so KERS is simple; You push a button and you go faster."

Love the guy!

Cheers,
Ian

 

By all means...

 

Hahahahamumblingagreed

 

Kraft, who is your avatar?

 

http://www.thefootdown.co.uk/2012/07/11/bradley-wiggins-fred-perry-collection-spring-summer-12/

Bradley Wiggins

He just won Tour de France, then few weeks later Olympic gold, truly an amazing cyclist..

 

Kraftwerk are also big cycling fans..

The connection https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kraftwerk+tour+de+france&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=-EMpUI3kO87P4QTp3IGYDw&ved=0CA4Q_AUoAQ&biw=1400&bih=937

 

Cool thanks. Good old team GB fared pretty well in this Olympics!

 

I'm almost 46, and someone recently asked me 'How did a kid growing up in Chicago during the 70's/80's even know what Formula 1 was?'. I actually couldn't answer the question! I just knew Gilles was the man, which says something about the impact GV had in an era where the sport had little presence in the States and the world didn't yet have the 24/7 news flow we see today.

I've lost count how many times I made this comment, but drivers from that era still embodied a gladiatorial persona in what was still a very lethal sport. I don't wish to see drivers die, but having that reality loom over the sport just made it a different game. People who have grown up with the modern iteration of motorsport just can't understand the difference.

I was fortunate--I got to see Gilles race in person, at Long Beach in 1982. In what was one of F1's great eras, there was no shortage of great names to follow: Lauda, Watson, Laffite, de Cesaris, Giacomelli, Piquet, Prost, Pironi, Reutemann, Patrese, de Angelis, Arnoux, Tambay, Alboreto...I always remember standing only feet away from them, feverishly snapping photos through a feeble link fence, no idea how they would turn out (I shot my avatar photo of Gilles). Never could I envision that only a month later, Gilles Villeneuve would be gone.

 

I agree with you about the gladiatorial nature of F1 drivers of that era. Very true. Most take for granted how safe the sport is today, unfortunately we had to lose some greats long before their time to make it that way...

 

Another one I really remember was reading the small blurb in the paper when Depailler was killed in testing - still have the clip. My dad had taken me to breakfast and we were flipping through the paper when I saw it. He wasn't into the sport at all, and didn't understand why it bothered me. I think that was 1980.