How do I set up the fuel injection system

I have a Euro 1987 Testarossa, KE Jetronic, no lambda sensors, no O2 sensors, no cats and no warm-up regulator....

I posted earlier about my creeping idle speed.
I just spent an hour or so at a main dealer and their chief (from Maranello) mechanic took a look at my car.
Briefly he reduced the idle speed by adjusting the bypass screw. It did the job but noted that the screws were fully in.
He suggested that the system needs setting up from fresh.
Also the engine was probably running rich just from the smell of the exhaust.

Knowing that I have been through the system fully and confirmed that there are no leaks I am tending to think he is correct that the system needs setting up from square one.

I have just spent about 2 hours going through the manual and I am unsure how to go about this. I can understand the CO2 and air bypass parts. There are lots of instruction on how to set up the individual parts but nothing on how to set up things together and in the right order.

Does someone have a blow by blow list of how to set up the fuel injection system?
I am happy with doing the work just not sure on the order of what to do and what the limits are.

Can any one help?


I learnt something new as well that is not detailed in the WSM as far as I can see. The vacuum limiting device is adjustable. I have no idea how to set this up
Again anyone adjusted this before and the procedure to set it up? Seems this bit is trial and error

P

 

How can you have a KE car without 02 sensors? AFAK, the E function in KE uses input from O2 sensors to adjust the base pressure which impacts the overall mixture. My 91 KE Euro ran poorly until I replaced the one bad O2 sensor.

(I have test pipes and removed the thermocouples from my car but it runs very well with good 02 sensors)

Without 02 sensors the system pressure would assume some base setting and always be very rich.

 

Give Larry Fletcher (fletch62) a call.

www.cisflowtech.com

He understands Bosch CIS injection better than anyone else I know.

 

Yes, the F113B family (KE-Jet without Lambda/O2 sensors) "assumes" a base setting for the Lambda control portion, but it isn't any different than the average setting that a US TR operates at (10mA EHA current at sea level). If you have a US TR and the warm-running is poor with the O2 sensors unplugged, the mixture setting isn't quite right.

The other function of the "E" part is to act as the Warm-up Regulator - add enrichment during cold-running and add enrichment during rapid throttle opening blips (no O2 sensor signal needed for these functions).

Pages D102-D103 in the TR WSM (if you don't have these pages, you don't have the KE section) or page 42 in the KE-Jet Standard Version Booklet 95990856.

Having the air bypass screws fully closed is incorrect -- see post #3 in this thread for a brief summary of the two conditions you need to achieve:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247225

 

You are right Steve, my manual shows the warm up regulators and does not mention my specific car so I was not aware of the missing pages. Is it possible to get these pages or the booklet you mentioned?

I am off to visit the thread you mentioned. Thanks for the help

P

 

Not sure, but you can always check with people like www.ferrariliterature.com or www.ferraribooks.com or even your F Dealer.

Others have referred to the TR WSM pages D61-D106 (that covers KE-Jet with Lambda - "Variants for Cars with Catalytic Converter") as being available as supplement 959908887 (626/90), but the (printed) TR WSM that I ordered ~10 years ago came with those pages so I've no experience trying to get them as a separate item.

 

In regards to the air bypass screws being all the way in (closed) - that's not right (like Steve says). How then...is the engine getting it's air to maintain idle, through the throttle plates? I can't believe that a cheif mechanic from Maranello would crank those screws all the way in...without finding out where the engine is getting it's idle air from.

 

Typed too many "8"s -- should be 95990887 (626/90)

 

Jeff I did not make myself clear.

I was a guest at a main dealer to try out the new 458 and Cali.
I was invited also to receive a safety check, a suspension alignment check, to be fed and watered all day and watch the Spanish Grand Prix qualifying all for FREE!!!!! Yes FREE

During the free safety check I mentioned to the chief mechanic that I had an idle speed that wandered up to 1400 when the engine got to full soaked operating temperature. He noted as I did, that the engine seemed to be running rich from the smell from the exhaust. He wound in the bypass screws in an attempt to reduce the idle which worked. Unfortunately to get a reliable 1000 RPM the screws were fully in. We both knew this is not correct and that the system needs to be set up. However, what he did was right to get me home and to point me in the right direction for a fix. He left me with the option to fix it myself or to book the car in to be fixed by them.

This thread was an attempt to start the fix. Unfortunately, and as correctly deduced by Steve, my manual does not correctly cover my car. My car has no warm up regulator (and other parts compared to a US model) and so I am a little unsure how to set it up.

Here is my plan, but feel free to shout out if you think I am wrong….

1) Check and note the present CO levels in the exhaust
2) Check / measure / compare plenum vacuum levels with manometer
3) Check all pipes and hoses for leaks
4) Check smooth operation and closure of the throttle plate
5) Rebuild top of engine
6) Adjust mixture to get CO levels in spec
7) set correct idle with by-pass screws and check / measure / compare plenum vacuum levels with manometer
8) check / adjust mechanical balance of throttle controls

Take a couple of beers or start again

In fact dont just feel free, please add in anything relevant. It may or may not help me, but at the end of the day there is a little bit more information to help others that may have the same or similar problems

P

 

I have just re-read Steves thread 4 again, this time a little more carefully

So after checking the functioning of the throttle plate, auxiliary air valve and vacuum limiting device and that there are no air leaks from pipes and rubber fittings I can move on to adjust things to Steves settings.

I conclude that getting condition 1 is essentially setting the correct "idle position" for the throttle plates.
Once this is set adjust the idle speed to 1000 with the bypass screws and then adjust fuel / air mixture to reach an exhaust CO value of 1% to 1.5%.
At all times the plenums vacuum should be equal.

Have I got that right??

P

 

One more question...
If I run the engine and press the brake pedal while I turn off the engine should I maintain a power assisted brake? If so how many presses should I get before vacuum (power assistance) is lost?

Thanks

P

 

Your air by pass screws should be closed all the way.

Does the car run ok now they are closed?

You need a mercury gauge to connect to both banks ,a co meter of the exhaust or your headers and the system should have warm up regulators they all do.

The 400 i manual by Ferrari is the one to follow to adjust your car.

With both banks connected to vacuum you loosen up the little nuts that allow adjustments at your throttle shafts by the main throttle plate (where the wire goes) and with the screws loose not effecting your throttle you adjust the throttle screws on the side (between the intake plenums )on each bank while you adjust the co to 1.5% while at the same time you are running even vacuum ,same co and the little rods at neutral position not effecting the opposite bank every time you adjust one side turning the throttle screw with a screw driver.....you should be able to adjust both banks to run even and the idle to be 1000 or less with the by pass screws closed ....then provided is all even both sides at idle AND at rpm (vacuum) and the engine comes back to idle with out stalling you tighten the little nuts on the shafts that effect the throttle screws and you are done.

If you know how to do this you should not have to do it again.
If it can not be done and you know what you are doing you need to look at what causes the trouble...plugs,distributor,timing etc

The 400 i manual and a book or two on jetronic is all you need plus study to know how it works ....is simple and most mechanics do not know how to set the car

I learned on my own and I made a yard tall mercury gauge out of mercury in a prescription container with two clear tubes in the mercury running up the length of a yard long stick of wood and quick fittings on the intake to hook up to so you can balance the banks in a minute if you had to.

If done right everything stays perfect for ever......


Mario

 

If possible: hook-up to a F computer !

It shows instantly any problem...for my 512TR it's done last week.

Can you hook-up the TR to such a system ?

 

Unfortunately, no. The TR K/KE-Jet injection + MicroPlex ignition systems are not as "intelligent" as your 512TR Motronic system -- not sure if that's a blessing or a curse

 

Well here is where I am up to:.........
I have found a leak in the rubber gasket that fits between the RHS plenum and the throttle body. Fixed.....
The idle switch as part of the RHS throttle body is stopping the RHS throttle from returning to idle properly. Fixed but ready to re-adjust once the idle mix is set.

I have yet to check that the brake servo has no leaks although I have tested the pipe from front to back for leaks. so far passed.

Tomorrow, start the rascal up and set up the system and balance it.
Once balanced I will set the idle mixture. A local garage has offered to provide me with a CO and HC test. I guess I am buying the beers though

So far so good....

P

 

Well she is up and running well again.

I got the sides balanced and now my two air by-pass screws are about 1.5 turns out.

I made myself a manometer to help with the task. Boy this is the best bit of home made gear I have ever used. It makes it a really simple task to balance and set up the banks of cylinders.

It consists of some water in two tubes with about 9 inches of airspace above the water. The engine sucks on this airspace. The side that shows the largest drop has the greater vacuum. All I needed to do was to keep the levels the same. The engine pulled the water level down to about the 4th or 5th calibrated mark

I tried to set the CO by adjusting the mixture. However, I suspect that my gas analyser has seen better days. It was not until I had weakened the mixtures so much that the engine started hunted that I realised my meter was not changing reading properly. Good job I noted the original setting. I think I turned the mixture screws out by about 45 degrees by the time I got it to hunt. I have left them at around 3-5 degrees anticlockwise. I will leave it like this to go to my test station for a first attempt. She is running okay so I am not too unduly worried it is too weak as I had black plugs before

Here are some pics of my (fully calibrated and expensive ) manometer and test gear.

P
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Something Rube Goldbergian about that lashup Phil. Brit ingenuity for sure. But what ever works works. Only on the TR section of Fchat. Love this place.

 

I guess that your Rube is the equivalent of our Heath Robinson
see http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=heath+robinson&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ALrrTZaVM4yzhAeqsrG6Bg&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1378&bih=1064 for a laugh.

I tried everywhere to get a proper mercury manometer but the only ones I could find were to test out household gas pressure not what I wanted so my expensive bit of kit was specially fashioned out of the best piece of Black Forest Pine and the best quality fish tank pipe that money can buy

It worked perfectly. I guess more accurately than a mercury manometer as well, so I am a happy TR owner and have another skill on my Ferrari owners CV

I think I may go into production, what do you think????

Yeah okay perhaps not

P

 

Hey Guys, i'm also having trouble. Seems to run rich, burning my eyes like a top fuel dragster, especially at idle. She's a 87 TR Euro/SA, no cats no o2, no warm-up reg. How can i get things right? F113B.

 

Hi,

I'm trying to get my fuel delivery right since I'm experiencing some kind of hunting at 3000 Rpm. My CO seems low (0.24 % with the lambda, swiss version of KE).

My WSM doesn't include the TR WSM pages D68 to D106. Where could I find theses pages or if somebody could send me the pdf it would be great ?

Thank you for your support !

Louis

 

Hi Louis, if you find a copy could you send me one as well, I have been looking for the last 3 or 4 years with no luck

 

I'm afraid about that.... It seems that all PDF Manual on the net are from the same source without the interesting pages...

I found on Ebay the Add-onn booklet on Testarossa KE jetronic but without the lambda (95990856)

 

Is that the ebay number Louis as I cant find it on the ebay site?
My car has no Lambda sensors so it might be the right one for me.

Thanks

P

 

No, it's the F part number

Yes, it's for F113B:
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Yes, It's the F part number. I bought it on the bay today but may be I've located the right manual for me (KE with lambda). I could make a PDF file with it or sale you the 95990856 if I manage to get the right one for me.