The Daytona is not loved.

This is a great thread.

I should point out that fewer Daytonas were produced than F40's.
And yet the F40's, with twin turbo 8 cylinders and arguably less Enzo-guided production, are worth more.

In my mind the Daytona was the epitome of everything Enzo Ferrari, including contributions from Columbo, Pininfarina, and Scaglietti.. It was his Magnum Opus.

Matt

 

Perhaps the Daytona is being punished for being the car that started the Japanese speculation bubble back when.
In any case I do wish it would take off again.
My Boxer is behind it and patiently waiting for its turn.

 

I am late to this and a great admirer of the Daytona but i do observe they are the most talked about least driven Ferrari (leaving out 1M+ cars which mostly end up as garage jewlery) which contributes to their low retention rate which I see is sad because the more someone drives them and learns the how of the steering the easier they are to drive and enjoy. Early on their prices were depressed due to the multiplicity of build issues from the coachbuilder but most have been completely redone and those issues corrected Stiil, the fact that nice coupes are neck and neck with similar Dinos (thousands made) says these cars appeal to a smaller slice of the vintage gang M

 

I've owned a Dino, they're great but ultimately you get bored because they're not fast enough. Like a Lotus Elise, they are very effective A to B but you have to row them along.

Ugly is a personal choice, few cars are perfect from every angle and a Daytona is shaped to reduce lift at speed, which works (up to about 130mph!).

For the life of me, I don't understand why Dinos are worth more than BB's, but that's not new.

 

The Daytona is not loved which is an interesting point to start from...however I would add that it's stable mate the 365 GTC/4 which only lasted two years (1971-1972) was rather unloved to. This is also reflected in it's resale value today. Contrary to other arguments about too many Daytona models being built the GTC/4 has a much smaller market supply yet it is less than half the price of a good Daytona. While it is convenient to lump the Daytona production together from a price stand point it isn't realistic. There are conservatively 3 different Daytona 'versions' which were built for different markets. The early plexi version was a European market exclusive for the first three years beginning in 1968 and the 1971 pop up headlight version with 'smog' equipment was the first attempt by Ferrari to meet more strict standards for the USA marketplace. The pop up headlight version for the European market still didn't receive the smog equipment of USA bound models. These differences do limit the number of actual cars available. Also lurking in the background is the Spyder version Daytona that commands a price comparable to the 275 GTB/4 and has the advantage of being a convertible.
Brand new the Daytona was a US 20k automobile and the Spyder version added US 7k to the price. Styling is a rather personal choice but it does play a big role in the perceived value buyers are willing to pay.
CH

 

here's a quote from a contributor in the Aussie section, after first time drives in a 330GT and my Daytona on a rally a couple of years back. I think he nails it...

Brilliant rally, and the generosity shown by Simon and Ian to me personally was tremendous! I won't forget their kind gestures. FWIW, it felt very special to drive Simon's car with that evocative Nardi wheel in my hand. Gee, that car feels so tough and the engine strong! Looks like a million bucks in silver, too. As for the Daytona, what a car that is... so rewarding to drive because it's a physical, responsive car that demands to be driven and doesn't suffer fools. It lived up to (and in fact exceeded) expectation. A legend, and a deserving one at that.
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Gee, imagine how much more Roman would have raved if you let him get out of first gear

 

Sure they are, lets face it there were three front engined cars at that time, the Daytona, the Ghibli and the 7 litre Grifo. They all were fast and the Ghibli is the cheapest of the group.

 

Take a look at Bora's. They are dirt cheap for what they are compared to Dino's. If you want to talk about unloved.... look at classic Maserati.

If you want to look at nutty prices, look at American Muscle cars.

You can't judge what one car is doing in the market and try to draw direct comparisons.

 

OK. Yes, it's a very well restored and exceptional example Manual 4.9 SS Spyder with a Factory Hard Top but do you call $880,000 cheap which is what the one in the link went for?

http://www.kidston.com/WORLD-CLASSIC-CAR-EXPERTISE/images/stories/PDF/1971%20maserati%20ghibli%20ss%20sypder.pdf

 

The Daytona IS loved. By me

 

The Ghibli/Daytona comparison is interesting, and another reason for the price difference is the cost of restorations spent in the past. Not too many Ghibli's would have received the level of work done to many Daytona's, and this causes a price-lag as well.

One step further, the successor to the Ghibli, Khamsin, was in many ways a much better car, and the last of the true front-engined Italian supercars. Very limited run (421 cars only), stunning looks (apart from US spec bumpers), and whilst some exceptional examples are priced well over 100.000 Euro's, the bulk of them are between 50-75 K Euro's. Dirt cheap for what they are.

 

I have seen a few Daytonas change hands for over $400k recently. One was a competely restored car in the southeast and the other was a reasonably "famous" Daytona. As to other cars, the good cars all seem to be offered in the low $400's but I don't know how many of those, if any, actually sell for that.

For example, Fantasy Junction right now has a celeste car with low miles and original everything. They are asking $410k. That seems extraordinarily optimistic to me but what do I know as I have never made any serious attempt at acquiring a Daytona. Some cars have been offered to me but I have never been serious enough to start banging hard to make a deal.

That said, I do agree that the Daytona is one of the most striking of the vintage Ferraris.

One other point. People talk about the number of cars made as a bad thing. I view that as a good thing. You need a critical mass of cars out there and being driven in order to support a sufficient parts market. Without enough cars, you end up having to go to specialists to custom make many parts that would be more easily available if the market were just a little bigger.

 

Firstly, I consider the GTC/4 to be the under valued car of this era...is it the 2+2 seating (just) that holds it back ? As for Daytonas, They are stunning to look at in my eyes but unless you have wide open roads to play on, they are pigs to drive in traffic. They are certainly not as balanced as say a well set up 275. However I think the main reason is that Daytonas are consideed a child of the 1970's and other than the very recent surge in Dino prices, all 1970's cars struggle to make high prices........Not only Ferrari. Perhaps the 1970's haven't yet attained the nostalgia of the 1950's & 1960's.

 

Although he has a Daytona in his collection today, which says a lot, Richard Carpenter of the Carpenters agrees with you and is a fan of the 365 GTC/4, but had problems with his.

Daytona reference: http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Auto-20%201972%20Ferrari%20GTC4%20Aside.htm

365 GTC/4: http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Auto-20%201972%20Ferrari%20GTC4.htm

 

That was a single car, most Ghibli's are under 100 K 7 litre Grifo's 300K

 

As a friend of mine has quoted his father "exotic cars mean exotic problems".
Does anyone remember the news story of a disgruntled purchaser taking a sledge hammer to his car in front of Ferrari of Los Gatos?

 

Over the past 40 yrs I have owned or extensively driven many of the cars discussed in this Daytona thread. Included were 250 GT, 500SF, 330 GTS, 330 GTC, QM, C/4, Daytona, Dino and Boxer. All were well maintained cars and not lacking anything. For my taste the 250 GT and SF were not that much fun to drive. The C/4 is a nice driver and a great GT much like the modern Maranellos. The QM was also a GT, but fairly large...not a car to thrash around. The Dino is a go kart. But being a V12-lover to me the Dino is more show and sound than go.

Due to the strength of the dollar in 1985 I traveled to Italy to buy either a Daytona or a BB. My preference was the Daytona. But since they were $35k I had to settle for the $25k BB [it's now in Hawkeye's garage]. From a driveablilty standpoint the BB was head and shoulders above the Daytona. Mid engine, low and sleek I loved the BB. At the time I could get into my Dad's Daytona to compare. I would come away thinking that I was glad to have the BB.

Make no mistake about it.....the Daytona is a great car with a racing background. It always impressed me that in 1979 an outdated Daytona come in 2nd at the 24 Hours of Daytona. To me that is a page of history that helps give the Daytona a storied heritage. But I guess the street car gets a bad rap due to it's slow speed driving characteristics and effort required. Like the Boxer it's not a woman's car.

Right now in my small stable there is a Dino, GTC and BB [plus an 05 SA]. If I were to choose which to take out for a drive I almost always choose the GTC. There is a certain balance and comfort level that actually can make it a daily driver. In fact my first GTC was my only car for 5 years back in the 70s. Because I love the GTC so much that I made the effort to identify it's weaknesses and made alterations to correct them. I upgraded cooling, improved the a/c system and replaced the Lucas alternator and wiring harness. I even have fast windows. Now my GTC is even more versatile. I just drove it 800 miles non stop on a 95+ degree day and stayed cool as a cucumber. Then I joined 30 other Ferraris running through the mountains of NC. Had a blast.

If I were to acquire a Daytona I probably would do the same things that I have done to my GTC. Yes I know.......the purists think I am ruining my car. But I don't care what they think. If I think that the car needs improvements to make it a better driver that is the road I will take. I would install an electric power steering unit that shuts off above 25 mph. I would find ways to improve the a/c system so it cooled more than the windshield. Bigger brakes might be a good thing assuming proper wheels could be found to fit without changing the appearance too much. And of course electrics are also a good thing to upgrade in these old cars.

My long winded point is that I try to separate dollars from the equation and focus on the fact that these are fantastic and classic sports cars. I know the concept of this thread was how the market perceives the Daytona. But these cars are not all about market value. The thrill and fun of driving is what make them loved.......by me anyway. I could easily fall in love with a Daytona.

 

The Coupe does offer very good value, especially in relation to its rivals in the market. A "not so good" Spyder just fetched $407,000.

See here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375996&page=2

 

OK, a daytona is nothing like expected, so worthless, If you want to get rid of it, please contact me, I will take for all of them.
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You just stole my words, if anyone knows of an unloved Daytona who is unsatisfied with his current owner, i´ll be glad to take care of him....hell, i´ll even build a garage just for him!!!!

 

This is indeed a very important point! 1950's and 1960's was the golden era of all things beautiful. That is why the highest prices are achieved in that period. The same goes for wristwatches. Jewellery. I wish I was born 30 years earlier and witnessed that era myself. It was a golden period never to be repeated....