Wow.. What a read and pics......... Just wow... I got to go and reflect for a while....
Ditto ... for some reason this accident has really affected me and I read pretty much everything I can find about it. Why, I don't know?. I know when the Concorde went down that really affected me too, but this is a very different situation. Pete
It is good to recognize the loss in an accident or incident but it doesn't do you any good to dwell on something that you can't change. I don't want to sound cold or harsh but one must continue to care mentally and physically for ones own well being to go on with his or her life. Those who have passed are without suffering and they are blessed.
The National Transportation Safety Board has not yet determined what caused last years deadly crash at the Reno National Championship Air Races, but its chairwoman recommended on Tuesday seven changes she said would make the races safer for pilots and spectators. The pilots should recieve special G-force training and perhaps wear G-suits to help them deal with race conditions, NTSB chairwoman Debroah Hersman said during a press conference. The course should also be changed to keep spectators away from the flight path, she said. Hersman also said the Federal Aviation Administration needs to fix its rules to clarify whether spectators must be 500 feet from the flight path, or 1,000 feet. Race officials need to change their system to make sure that problems found during prerace technical inspections are fixed and documented. And the aircraft should undergo an engineering evaluation that to show that the plane can handle the race stress, she said. Our investigation revealed that this pilot in this airplane had never flown at this speed on this course, Hersman said. We are issuing a safety recommendation to ensure that pilots and their modified airplanes are put through their paces prior to race day. The pilot and 10 people on the ground were killed in the crash of the Galloping Ghost on Sept. 16, and at least 70 people were injured. Many suffered amputations and severe lacerations from flying shrapnel. After the hearing, Howard Plagens, the lead NTSB investigator, detailed the sequence of events that led to the crash, which took about 6 seconds from the start of the problems. The Galloping Ghost was banking left at about a 70-percent around the last pylon when it suddenly banked about 90 percent, he said. The maximum G-force likely hit about 1.5 seconds after the upset, he said. The aircraft then rolled right and over, he said, and thats when the elevator trim tab fell off the tail. That description does not fit with speculation made by many aviaion experts, who said they believed the plane went out of control after the trim tab fell off. (Page 2 of 2) Plagens said it was clear from photos and video that the trim tabs failure occurred well after the plane went out of control. NTSB investigators are still trying to determine what caused the initial upset, he said. Mike Houghton, president and CEO of the Reno Air Racing Association, said his board would look at each of the NTSBs suggestions to determine what can be implimented right away and which might take more time. Some of the recommendations, including the G-force training, has already been implemented, he said. I dont think any of these would have had an impact on the tradegy we experienced, Houghton said. But the association is always open to changes that lead to a safer event, he said. Houghton also said he questioned the NTSBs statement that Leeward had never flown his aircraft at top speed on that course. He said Leeward likely went faster during the qualifying rounds, when the course was wide open. Alison Duquette, spokeswoman for the FAA said the agency was already working to address the NTSBs recommendations. Safety is FAAs top priority, and the agency continues to work closely with air race organizations and conduct thorough inspections to ensure compliance with FAA safety regulations, she said in an emal. The Reno Air Racing Association is selling tickets for this years event, scheduled for Sept. 12-16. The association must still secure a Special Event license from the Reno-Tahoe Airport Authority and a waiver from the Federal Aviation Administration before it can hold the event. Plagens said it was clear from photos and video that the trim tabs failure occurred well after the plane went out of control. NTSB investigators are still trying to determine what caused the initial upset, he said. Mike Houghton, president and CEO of the Reno Air Racing Association, said his board would look at each of the NTSBs suggestions to determine what can be implimented right away and which might take more time. Some of the recommendations, including the G-force training, has already been implemented, he said. I dont think any of these would have had an impact on the tradegy we experienced, Houghton said. But the association is always open to changes that lead to a safer event, he said. Houghton also said he questioned the NTSBs statement that Leeward had never flown his aircraft at top speed on that course. He said Leeward likely went faster during the qualifying rounds, when the course was wide open. Alison Duquette, spokeswoman for the FAA said the agency was already working to address the NTSBs recommendations. Safety is FAAs top priority, and the agency continues to work closely with air race organizations and conduct thorough inspections to ensure compliance with FAA safety regulations, she said in an emal. The Reno Air Racing Association is selling tickets for this years event, scheduled for Sept. 12-16. The association must still secure a Special Event license from the Reno-Tahoe Airport Authority and a waiver from the Federal Aviation Administration before it can hold the event.
6 seconds from problem to impact shows how intense air racing is. Interesting the NTSB still doesn't know what the trigger was after this much time. I suspect they will never know conclusively if they don't know by now. It's either pilot error/incapacitation or airframe/control failure. 6 seconds is not a lot of time to figure it out.
Surely the trim tab failed and then physically fell off afterwards ... we are only talking seconds here. Anyway ... horrible situation. Pete
The pilot had never flown this course at that speed, don't they have any practice or hot laps prior to the event.? Edward
The multiple instances of poor communications and/or findings/statements are disappointing. Speculation is not so good. The NTSB is bringing their abilities into question IMO. This is disappointing on a number of levels. It still hurts and this doesn't help at all. I do however like the positive response of the hosting organization.
I think I read that he did, they all usually do, sometimes even faster as they are alone-no other planes nearby. But, you and I are speculating... not valid..
From article posted above, according to NTSB- Our investigation revealed that this pilot in this airplane had never flown at this speed on this course, Hersman said. We are issuing a safety recommendation to ensure that pilots and their modified airplanes are put through their paces prior to race day.
Fourth para from the end, Houghton refutes the NTSB assertion, saying Leeward "must have gone faster in quali....with no other aircraft on course......". Sorta ragged *reporting* so far......?
Agreed. Good point. NTSB says "had never" and Houghton says "likely" Government statement of "truth" vs. private sector expert "theory". I'll go with a theory from anyone outside of Govt versus their truth everytime... PS - Blaming the pilot, is always easiest. Even though it may not always be the best answer. In this case, I don't have enough info to form a solid conclusion. PPS - The lawsuits will get as close as possible to what is at fault, which may end up being the same legal entity anyway. The NTSB is probably punting.
Are there / will there be? I suppose so, with so many dead and wounded. Someone will want / need a 'culprit'. Too bad, as the legal actions will likely run on for years, making closure even harder for those who want it..... (....easy for me to say.....)
No disrespect intended, and do not know anything about him, but difficult to see how that will benefit the deceased.....
Just as a question - is a P51 Mustang even physically flyable without the elevator trim tab? Second question - would the trim tab be the first thing to be detached in an over-G situation?
I believe that the tab in a neutral position (streamline) would be subjected to flutter at very high speeds. If it was in a deployed position to move the control surface the hinge fittings would be under heavy loads. Either condition could fail the hinges. In 1966 Howie Keef lost is rudder trim tab at the start of the race when he was flying P-51 Miss America
It depends on what speed you are flying. For every speed there is a trim tab position. As you diverge from that speed, either slower or faster, stick forces increase. That is, as you go away from the trimmed speed it takes more stick force to control the airplane. If you lose the trim tab the stick forces are the same as if the tab was in the netural position. The trail position speed depends on where the designers (or modifiers ) set the angle of the tail plane, this sets the angle of the trail position of the tab. So the amount of stick force at a given speed without the trim tab is a function of what the designers or modifiers did with the tail plane angle. In most typical airpanes the stick force without a trim tab would be huge that far from the normal landing and takeoff speed. With this airplane there is no way of knowing without seeing where the elevator is trimmed at takeoff, climb, or at high speed. In the incident that Bob mentioned when the aircraft lost the trim tab it resulted a large pitch up g load that caused the pilot to black or grey out, and then he managed to recover, but he couldn't prevent the pitch up event. This previous failure of a trim tab at speed as well as this more recent event would suggest that the trim tabs are in a position away from trail (high trim tab forces) and that contributes to their failure at high speed. So the real answer is "it depends", but probably not.
Wouldn't it be safer to design a completely new plane with an air frame that is designed to reached these much higher speeds and put the P51 engines in that. Lets face it the designer of the P51 did NOT design that aircraft to race, it was designed to battle, etc. Pete
100% with you on that one. It has reached the limits of the systems, structural and aero. And a credit to the airplane's design, it was too damn good. As I was driving home today I thought about flutter and the sharp closure rate of the aft section of the airfoils in the stabilizer and recalled that the Boeing 367-80 had some almost fatal flutter in the vertical fin and rudder due to the sharp closure at the tip. They added 24 inches to the tip chord to stretch it out to live at peace at near sonic speeds. You can see it if you compare early photos with later examples. If anyone decides to design a new unlimited they had better do a better job of structural analysis than what has been done in the past...like Tsunami.
"Federal safety regulators are focusing on loose screws in the tail of World War II-era fighter aircraft modified to race faster than 500 mph as a likely cause of the crash that killed the pilot and 10 others during air races in Nevada last year. The National Transportation Safety Board released nearly 1,000 pages of documents and photographs Tuesday as it investigates the cause of the September 2011 crash at the Reno Air Races. Regulators also point to potential deficiencies in inspection procedures. The board says inspectors noted screws used earlier were too short in one of the trim tabs that help control the aircraft. The crew reportedly fixed the problem and the plane was cleared to race. The NTSB says there was "no written procedure or sign off to ensure" that was the case. A spokeswoman for the National Transportation Safety Board said that their website is down, but theyre working on the issue. Those interested in the Reno National Championship Air Races docket should continue to try this link. http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=51746&CFID=256561&CFTOKEN=82086778
Screws too short. That's a problem if true. A British Airways flight had screws too short holding the pilots windshield in place. It popped off, the pilot got sucked out, and the other crew members caught his feet and held him in place while the copilot landed. The captain had to ride the rest of the flight on the outside fuselage of the aircraft. 500mph wind gives nasty windburn. But, he lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390
Does anyone know if they have repaired the tarmac in Stead? I had heard that it was just left covered with something while the investigation was being done.
