Slow in, Fast Out is a myth

+1 on your post, Rob. With your reservations on most folks overlooking the slow corners. Alex Lloyd is on a roll!

 

+1, this is a great series of articles, even if they are on jalopnik

I realized "slow in fast out" wasn't complete gospel when Gil DeFerran did an interview years ago (right after ChampCar championship #2), and he said to him, the mark of a great driver is speed into a corner.

 

Fast in, slow middle, fast out is faster, but it's a LOT more complex than that to where merely saying that is no help. See page 52:

http://www.nationalstemcentre.org.uk/dl/e0d8105c2933762b71fc5f76e4219a78c53707ce/10984-Mathematics%20Reader.pdf

In short: You brake later and turn in later while still braking (trail braking), apex earlier and at a slower speed which allows you to get on the gas sooner and carry more speed down the straight. Optimal line is not just the traditional curve, it is heavily turn and car dependent, both on grip and power/weight (all of that determines the proper k-value). A k-value of 0 is the traditional 'brake in a straight line and the take the corner at a constant speed' line. The shorter the turn and longer the straights, the higher the k-value. The higher the power/weight and less grip, the higher your k-value needs to be and the farther from the traditional line you need to be. It's fascinating stuff and any other article I've read vastly oversimplifies it.

Also, this flies a bit in the face of what the jalopnik article states - that earlier turn in and getting off the brakes to throw all of the weight of the car into the turn is faster - BUT, that could be due to the specific cars in question that have a ton of aero grip. If you don't adjust the corner skew to the car, you'll be slower than somebody that naturally does it, which could be what the author is talking about - when talking about the line of Hamilton etc., it is probably that they are adjusting their line to the car where others are using the line that suits whatever car is their favorite. If somebody is used to driving a sports car, they will need to turn in later and skew the line more due to lack of relative grip to the acceleration parameters of the sports car vs. an open wheeled car that has massive amounts of aero grip and needs a less skewed line (even with all the power they have).

 

Fast in, faster out

 

I vote for smooth all the way round is best. slow in fast out as a base. .... Slow is relative to the car & track.

 

I am guilty of the slow in fast out driving style as this was preached when I first started racing In a 911, it seemed to make sense as I had some success. Habits have been hard to break. I carried this habit into Formula Mazdas with some trail braking introduced; at best, I finished as a mid-packer in the world of racer wannabes. Now racing a 944, I'm still realizing how much grip I'm leaving on the table in corner entry. Maximizing the friction circle is easier said than done.

 

Or maybe you were TOO slow going in and the guy behind you gave you a push to get you to speed up?

 

rubbin's racin'!

 

Which is, still, slow in fast out

It's all semantics, but I get the point. I always parsed "fast in, fast out" as "too fast in, compensate and try like mad to recover and drive out fast".

I parse "slow in, fast out" as "scrub off just enough speed to control the car into the corner, then power out".

As I recall, that was the way I was taught at Bertil Roos (although that was 10+ years ago)

 

so you're saying the problem is the loose nut behind the wheel?

 

Does anybody remember the old R&T article by Alan Jones (IIRC) where he claimed:

1) there are only three kinds of corners...corners at the start of a straight, corners at the end of a straight, and corners between corners.

2) speed on the straight matters more for lap time than speed in a corner. Races are won by speed on the straights.

3) therefore, the most important thing is to exit a corner at the start of a straight fast.

4) the second most important thing is to enter a corner at the end of a straight fast.

5) corners between corners should be played to maximize points 3 and 4.

It was way back in the 1970s - is this advice given any credence in current thinking?

 

Drift in, drift out.

 

Thats the slow way though.

 

Then the only real solution to going faster is to buy a faster car.

 

Interesting.

Tell that to the F1 guys because the fastest on the straightaway is rarely the winner...


Kai

 

Sadly, that is often true. But what the guy was saying is that the turns should be used to advantage - that is, to maximize whatever speed you can develop on the straight by making better straight entry and exit.

 

I have not been racing for 15 plus years but do some track days etc.... so I'm by far any kind of expert, but have had plenty of top notch instruction...Winfield, Skip Barber, Brian Redman,Olivier Panis etc...

the best advice I've ever seen / experienced / heard is Jackie Stewart at Brans Hatch, his thing was to get all your breaking, & shifting done in a straight line, then concentrate on the corner... also be in a higher gear than you think you will need for a corner...

after some practice & depending on the car, i completely agree. in a Formula Renault it was excellent advice.... Brian Redman was very smooth, and completely in control it was almost like he was dancing with the car.

 

Sound advice and, as one would expect from Jackie Stewart, right on.

The choice of slow in fast out or fast in slow out is determined by the preceding and following straights. Maximize the length of the longest straight so you spend the most time going as fast as possible. After all its a time/distance equation, never forget that.

 

I remember an old quote from Nelson Piquet from the early '80s, in which he agreed with Jackie, that all braking and shifting should be completed before entering a turn unless the turn tightens up after initial entry and requires just a downshift with no braking. After I heard this I put it to the test and the advice was/is spot on and thus will allow a driver to focus on as Rob said the "adhesion vs slip factor".