Most weird torsion damper failure on my 456M

As I've done last year (and want to make it the rule) I drove down from Brussels to my beach-house in lovely Costa Branca, Spain.
We took 6 days to get there stopping en-route at the Le Mans 24hours Classic, and lots of other cultural events ;-)
It was a 2.500km trip and apart from having to fill the tank the car behaved perfectly even though B roads (I love to see the country side).

Once arrived, car parked in closed garage and I had to come back to work (snif, snif...) leaving it, and my wife, unattended for 2 weeks.

When I went back for an extended 4 day weekend, start the engine and after a few seconds a terrible noise from the engine bay. Immediately stop the engine, open hood to check is something was loose, but at first superficial sight, nothing to report.
Try starting again and sure enough, after 10 seconds or so, same noise. It sounded like as if something like a bolt or metallic part had been left behind in the engine bay and was now being thrown around.

First thing I thought was 'Oh no, issue with cam belts. Something got in there and its going to wreak havoc!". So I took a long moment to check everything was OK, took out the two engine covers (those protecting the drive belts) and all was as it should, or so it seemed.

Put back the engine covers and tried again. This time awful noise comes back but goes away after a few seconds. I had checked oil levels and topped up about a litre as the gauge showed it to be on the low side (and I knew this was more preventive than anything else as I had not let the engine turn to get sufficiently hot to do a proper oil level check).

After another couple of engine starts, funny noise doesn't come back but now I have a hissing friction noise!

Head back under the hood and I notice alternator and water pump belts are now making contact with engine covers! I check the way I put the covers back for spacers or anything I may have done wrong, but nothing. They can only go in one way and you cannot get it wrong. Being cautious, loosen them and re-assemble them and start engine again just to hear and see belts are strongly in contact with covers and wearing away!

This was all in my house garage where I have no jack or way to get under the car so no chance to take a closer look.

Found a DIY garage and booked for Monday. Took out engine covers to avoid any more wearing and problems and drove, slooooowly to garage which was just 7 km away. On the way there, another noise pops up, this time some sort of metal to metal friction only happens in low revs waiting for traffic light.

In the garage, up on the car elevator, I loosen alternator, drop belt, loosen water pump belt tensioner, drop belt, and surprise, torsional damper pulley rattles on its axis, and comes loose! That is part 24 on image. There is an inner part which is the one attached to the crankshaft, the outer part with the grooves for the belts, and they are connected by some sort of hard rubber which acts as damper.

What the xxxx happened!!!!! Could this be just "normal" wear (2000 model, with 45.000 24.000 of which with me since 2 years ownership)?

In any case, no way I could get it back in working order on my own - no parts.
Quick call to closest Ferrari dealer which happened to be Barcelona about 500km away. Find truck with bed, get car on truck, and it was in Barcelona the next day.

The Ferrari dealer was most responsive, diagnosed the faulty part and need to replace the damaged covers and belts, and everything else was OK. All accessories driven by belts were free to rotate and there was nothing else to report.

Parts and labor cost me 1.200 Euro and car ready to be picked up this week. I'm now booked on a flight Friday to pick her up.

Has anyone else had this type of problem?

Fortunately, this was minor and apart from the hassle of the calls and an unplanned trip to Barcelona (I was planning to fly on Friday to Valencia back to my beach-house, so I guess I'll just have to drive the 500km back on my own, and enjoy each one of them!)
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We have seen several and it is an area we pay particular attention to during the services. Most have been caught early such as yours others have not been so lucky.

 

Does the 550 use a similar harmonic balancer?

 

The part number is the same for 550, 575 and 612. All same engine base. So the short answer seems to be yes.

 

That is comforting! I was wondering what I'd done wrong.
Funny though that when I searched through the forum I didn't catch anything about it.

 

Luis, were either of the serpentine belts replaced or retensioned lately?

Anything you can think of during your ownership that may have put too much side load or stress on the dampner?

 

None of the belts were replaced in the last 2 years. When I bought it September 2010 it had a full service including belts.

The only thing I can think of is that just before I headed back to Brussels for work I went for a very fast ride where I pushed the engine more than I usually do when obeying the law ;-)

 

So you think it "might" have been engine RPM in lieu of belt load that caused it to separate?

I'm sure that weirder things have happened, but the idea that a 2000 model with only 45K on the clock just had its dampner fail ranks right there with the very weird, IMO. Part of the Ferrari "charm" I suppose <sigh>.

 

Could be one out of a bad batch - I know Alfa had issues with torsion dampers on their early JTD engines. Some would fail at low miles and others ran for +200k miles with no issue.

 

Not so Wierd. As windsock says it's a known fail point..

 

Sorry Eddie, I should have clarified this. I meant weird from a "rest of the world" perspective, not from Ferrari's.

 

Lol! See what you mean!!

 

I don't "think" it was the high revs. Just that looking at my usage pattern and recent events that was the only difference I can recall.
It doesn't comfort me that it is a known issue. I just wanted to check whether this was a unique one-off and I should be worried to look further for other root causes that might have future effects.
If it happened before, I'm in that sense less worried.

I don't think F cars are any better or worse than other cars in terms of reliability and gremlins.
It is just that owners tend to drive them very little and keep them garaged for long periods. Cars that aren't used regularly wear faster and are prone to more problems. Whether F or other.

In my case, I have left in my beach house a 6 year Saab 9.3 that I used to have as DD. For 75.000 km nothing more than regular maintenance, but when left unused for 2 to 3 months at a time, small things come up. The last one was a xenon bulb. Petty stuff, but I bet if I had been using it regularly the bulb would still be working fine.

Also marketing has made a great job at managing expectations and the reality warp. I remember when I was younger and could only afford second hand Alfas, an Alfasud. I did all the work myself upgrading carbs etc. the car would work just fine and reliability was perfect. Only problem was the rust, but that helped with the ventilation (no airco then).

I worked with a BMW guy that would only swear by German engineering bla bla bla and look at my Alfa as if it was going to fall apart any moment. We would co-drive together to work taking turns every week.
One day he calls me to say he can't take his car because it didn't start, towed away and it was the electronics that had gone bust.

I pick him up barely managing to hide the wide grin on my face.
A few weeks later, we were with other guys and when the talk moved to 4 wheels he started bragging about is BM bla bla bla. Never mentioned it let him down, the repair was expensive, etc. That's what I mean by reality warp!

We F guys are just too critical and look for each and every opportunity to discuss things that don't work or "gremlins". That's because we are critical about our cars and we want them to be perfect and are not afraid of looking reality in the face.

That is why I use my F as much as possible and ever leave it garaged for long periods. And when s___ happens, I just look back nd forward at how wonderful it is to sit behind that steering wheel!

But this is only MHO

 

Hello , same problem on http://www.forum-auto.com/marques/ferrari/sujet1923-210.htm#t252121

 

I finally picked up the car this Friday and drove back 480km to my vacation place.
Car drove perfectly and everything is back to normal.
Ferrari Barcelona wee most helpful and delivered exactly on promise. Next time anything breaks I want it to be close to their shop ;-)
This was the first instance of this part breakdown they have seen.
Attached pictures of the faulty part and the damaged engine covers.

Tomorrow driving all the way up to Santander and pick up the overnight ferry to Plymouth. We will spend a short week touring Cornwall and Devon and then head back home to Brussels.
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The damper felt the same way and worn the cam cover exactly like yours.
It was the first trip after cam belt service.
No one could understand what happened. It looks like maybe there was a faulty batch. Romain and yours wer part of it.
That means on my next Cam belt change on our 456M, I will ask to change that part

 

Interesting stuff, I remember sometime last year a member here had the exact same problem happen after a cam belt change.

I forget the outcome now, but it was quite a shady story.

Thanks for sharing pics mate, hope the car is still going strong.

 

Car going very well, thanks.
After picking it up and driving back to my beach house, after a few days I started on my trip back home.

Drove all the way up to Santander (about 800 km) and got on the ferry to Plymouth. Only issue was I couldn't lock the car and disarm the alarm so with the boats' movement alarm went off a number of times (but so did most of the other cars').

In the UK, full tour of Cornwall, Devon and back to Belgium via the tunnel. Altogether 1.900 km of driving pleasure and nothing more to report other than sheer bliss.

As this time we decided to do B&B the true English way, I could really prove my 456 can go just about anywhere and probably places where 4X4 wouldn't feel at home! Boy, are there small winding roads in the UK!

On the last leg of the trip, leaving a B&B in deep Kent countryside, drove through cow or horse manure on the road. The smell in the closed Euro tunnel train was just bearable!

Now back home and planning to give her a wash and TLC next weekend in preparation for Ferrari weekend in Silverstone on 15 and 16 September. I have just registered to be part of the Guinness record breaking 500+ Ferrari parade.

 

Luis, I took my 575M in for a top down service to fix every single thing that was not 100% and, on the third test drive by the shop (after replacing steering linkage and assorted other tasks) just before I was scheduled to pick up my car, the harmonic balancer separated from the crankshaft pully. My guys say this happens somewhat frequently and is a failure of the rubber bushing which isolates the two components - a not so nifty design deficiency. They changed mine out before it left the shop and it's been nothing but a dream to drive.

I would say you're home free!

 

Well done, take care and enjoy Luis!

 

Hello Luis , I live not far from Brussels

 

My 550 torsion damper separated, moved forward cutting accessory belts and plastic covers just like your photo. This was a 1999 with 24,000 miles being driven less than 30 MPH!

Ian