1979 Porsche 930 (...and 78's too!)

see some tasty parts there........

 

Here’s a derelict ’78 930 (still equipped with snorkel headlight washers)

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/junk9.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/junk10.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/junk11.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/junk12.jpg

http://www.yakez.com/for-sale-detail/Salvage-PORSCHE-930-1978_593949544915396017.html

 

The 1980 German language 911 SC & 911 Turbo brochure includes photos of the 1979 production 930’s (including U.S. models).

A craftsman working on a rear welded flare:

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930803.jpg

Additional finish work:

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930801.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930802.jpg

Engine fitted to a U.S. ’79 930 (note red tail lights):

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930805.jpg

Silver U.S. '79 930 on the assembly line (note red tail lights):

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930804.jpg

 

idart, how old are the pictures of these derelicts? me want some parts.......

 

I have dreamed of owning a '79 930 for years. Now I have one and I can’t take the smile off my face when this 33 year old car comes on boost. I have to say that I've been enjoying this thread immensely! One of the things I've been curious about, like IDART, is the relationship between the "49 State" and "California" production numbers. WHAT LUCK! I was just over on the RLIST forums and noted IDART posted that there was a VIN 9309801155 on ebay;

(9309801155 – eBay (reserve not met) http://outboundlink.me/ib.php?DR_id=200&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2F%3Fcmd%3DViewItem%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m1423.l2649%26item%3D290761140507%26sspagename%3DSTRK%253AMEWAX%253AIT&ibref=forums.rennlist.com%2Frennforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D118511%26page%3D6&outtime=26097

This ebay posting provides some interesting information with regard to the 1979 US production splits.
* First, the ebay 930 is VIN #1155 which is 45 from the end of 1979 US Production.
* The Seller answers a question and provides, Engine #6891366 (930/63 - "California option")
* Also answered, Transmission #7791842 (930/34 - "World Wide" ’79 930 4-Spd.

Why is this meaningful? Well, IDART has VIN #1164 (36 from the last), between his and the ebay car, the two provide a pretty late production representation of the 1190 '79 US 930's built (VINS #9309800011-9309801200). ’79 930 US engine serial numbers ended with 4 digits. All ’79 930/63 “California” engines had build numbers starting at 1001 while all ’79 930/64 “49 State” engines started at 0001.

IDART's engine is #0807 (the 807th “49 State” example). The ebay car’s engine is #1366 (the 366th “California” example).
* 807 “49 State” + 366 “California” =’s 1173 “Total”. This is 17 short of a possible 1190.
* The two car’s VINs are 36 and 45 short of the possible 1190.
* The ENGINE totals and the VIN totals correlate quite closely.

While the totals are not exact they are relatively close. How do we account for discrepancies?
* There may have been replacement engines to account for damaged or out-of-spec engines.
* The engine serial numbers reported are in error.
* Some higher serial number engines may have been installed in lower VIN number chassis.

What can be concluded based on the data?
* Over 30% of Porsche’s US 1979 930 assemblages were for California
* Less than 70% went to the rest of the Country
* About 370 ’79 930’s for California but only 16 each of the other 49 States.
* Likely some of high market 49 States received more than 16 making it likely that others were left with very few if any at all.

The results shown support that IDART’s 930.has a reasonably late production #0807 engine which corresponds with the late #1164 VIN.

The Transmission serial number for the ebay car is 1842. I’m curious to know what IDART’s transmission serial number is.

The total World road-going 1979 VIN 930 manufacture per Michael Cotton’s Book is 2021. I would like to see more engine/trans numbers from higher VIN ‘79’s (especially COA verified numbers) to defend my conclusion.

It would be interesting to do this for the 1978 930/62 and 930/63 cars. Somebody just bought 1978 #0461 so the end data point is already available for the last “49 State” or “California” ’78 US engine. #0461 has a COA making it a perfect starting point.

Keep the numbers coming!

 

Charles,

Sorry - I don’t know anything more except the salvage link at the bottom of each post.

When I bought my ’79 930 in 1989, the ’86-88’s were 30-40 percent higher and the “new” ’89 was three times as expensive. Because the ’78-79 930’s have been so cheap, many were abused, left for dead and then parted out. I’m sure there are a lot of U.S. ’76-77 930’s that met a similar demise since they were the least expensive used 930 back in the day (but certainly not anymore).

Rich

 

930,

I noticed the same thing about VIN #1155. It was a surprise to me as I’ve always thought California and 49-State 930’s were almost a 50/50 split. As you mentioned, the engine numbers for these 1979 examples tells us this is not the case.

As I mentioned before, the “Last 50” production must have been somewhat complicated. We know now that the first 25 VINs and last 25 VINs are not the demarcation between California and 49-State cars. My car, #1164 was a 49-State car as well as VIN #1200, posted on the first page of this thread at:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=371414).

But then we have VIN #1175 that throws a wrench in a 49-State/California demarcation point as it was a California car:

http://www.thelastdetail.com/1979-so...rbo--c-224.htm

Makes you wonder how these cars were ordered by the Porsche+Audi dealers for exterior colors and options (e.g., my car with a two-tone red/black interior)? They must have been made to order at the Porsche factory with full knowledge of the correct engine (49-State or California) to install.

What’s bizarre about my engine is how early the parts are. For example, my intercooler (VIN #1164, 11/79 production) is dated 6/79 whereas I’ve seen later intercooler (VIN#912 production 9/79) that is dated 9/79. I’ve got 100% of the maintenance records so I know nothing was modified on my car. Perhaps the California engines were made with later production parts?

My transmission is 7791977 (original per the PCA COA).

 

idart,
Thanks for the transmission number for your car. Having a COA adds a lot of credibility to the numbers I’m working with. I know a lot of folks dislike them for various reasons including inaccuracies but backing a serial number up with a COA makes it 100% accurate. I’m sure we’ll both agree there’s a high likelihood that there are many swapped out engines and transmissions on these cars after 33 years. Your transmission #1977 makes a lot of sense when comparing it to a total production possibility of 2021. Your number is only 44 off the highest possible while your VIN is 36 off. That’s really close! These cars were hand built and expensive. Short of the tub, the engines and trans were the highest cost sub-assemblies. Porsche probably didn’t carry a lot of excess inventory and they probably weren’t readied until close to the assembly need date. I can’t comment on the 1155 transmission at this time without knowing if that car has a COA.

My February build 9309800395 ’79 930 has a COA. What can I now show just knowing the numbers from idart’s late production “49 State” 930?
* My VIN is 34% into the US production run for “49 State” up to VIN 1164.
* My engine #0287 is 36% into the total “49 State” engine build to engine #0807.
* My transmission #0849 is 42% into the total 1979 930 world-wide build.
These numbers have a pretty close correlation considering total ROW build is used in calculating the transmission numbers but only US build “49 State” is used in the VIN and engine calculations. This further supports my prior statement that the engine and transmissions were readied close to the assembly need date. It also shows that as long as the end (or close to it) serial numbers are known we can plug in the numbers for an earlier car and a comparison showing close correlations can be determined for either the “49 State” or “California” 79 930’s. Conclusion; the
1979 930 VINs are closely aligned in sequence to the engine and transmission serial numbers.

The research would support that the order came in and was assigned to a VIN. The respective US engine was built and mated to the tub with a transmission that was built in an order to support World-Wide 930 production was also part of the marriage.

I know all the parts I’ve come across on my original car are dated close to the February build. As an example, I recently checked my seats and they are 1/79. Regarding your intercooler date, it might be an anomaly in the build pull, or, the originally installed one might have had a defect and was swapped out at the factory or even at the dealer before delivery. That does not preclude your intercooler from being original to your 1164. If we look long enough and hard enough there are probably a few instances like that.

I’m looking to further support my conclusions on my previous thread. In support of this, I’d like to find COA examples of the very last “49 Sate” and “California” cars. You stated that 1200 is “49 State” and has a COA. I sure would like to have the Engine/Trans numbers if they are available for it. Do you know who owns it?

Does anyone have VIN, along with engine and transmission serial numbers, information on any very late 1979 930 they would be willing to share?

 

Good point, my intercooler may be a one-off early dated part on my engine (I'll check out some other dated parts on my engine).

For #1200, Last930 is the Rennlist user ID (you can send him a PM).

It's nice to see some research on these great cars.

 

last 50 car on e-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-Porsche-930-Turbo-Last-50-made-USA-/290768850757?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43b32c8f45

 

I'd like to include this car's # it in my documentation but before I do, can anyone comment on the Transmission Number and/or does it have a COA?

 

Probably have to ask a question to the eBay seller to see if it has a PCA COA. It has a roll bar installed so it's possible that hard track use required the replacement of the transmission. The transmission number does seem out of sequence compared to my car but a COA would still be necessary to be sure.

 

After I purchased the June 1978 issue of Road & Track at the newsstand in the summer of 1978, the Porsche 930 made a lasting impression. There are two things that still impress me about this issue.

First, the performance of the 930. R&T provided a summary of their road tests in the front of the magazine. Until they tested the ’78 930, the Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer had the fastest 0-60 time of 5.5 seconds. After this issue, the ’78 930 would be king of the 0-60 time for many years to come and even today, the 5.0 second mark is still pretty quick.

Today, what impresses me about this issue is the timeless design of the 930. R&T’s Turbo article began on page 49 and on the previous page there was a full page Ford Fairmont advertisement. Is the Ford Fairmont also a timeless design? Perhaps if you include the Fairmont wagon's resemblance to National Lampoon’s, Vacation, Wagon Queen Family Truckster.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/78rt2.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/78rt1.jpg

 

1987 Porsche factory poster: “Part of what makes an enduring car is continually testing its endurance.”

“If you want to test a car, race it. If you want to torture a car, race it for 24 hours straight. There is no greater proof of a car’s durability. Which is why, almost from the day we started building the 911, we started racing the 911.”

“It was in pursuit of this goal that we built the 911 Carrera RSR Turbo. A car that, in its first season, captured seven national and three international championships. A car which, even now, wins its class with astonishing regularity.”

“We were very pleased with the RSR Turbo. But we were also convinced that the 911 design could be taken still further. Which led us to the 935, a dedicated racing version of the 911. A car that won first overall at what many consider to be the ultimate endurance race, the Twenty-Four Hours of Le Mans.”

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/9352.jpg

 

More from “Save the Whales”, Jan 80, Motor Trend:

“The road is clear ahead, save for a few red dots in the ink, but the town incinerator has choked the air with its foulness, and suddenly it’s a great time to break away. Down into 1st and bang my foot almost to the floor; pull 2nd and the turbo really starts working; the power is heady, sensational. Foot to the floor and snap it into 3rd at a little over 100. In the sparkling rush before my face, the P-7s smash into a rise in the pavement, the Turbo grinds to the right about a foot, and an extra pint of adrenalin pumps out through my palms, but the car is straight-line and still pulling like madman. I pull 4th at 125 and watch the tachometer and speedometer for the first time. The red dots are now taillights, and I’m flashing by on the left like they were putting the brakes on. The Turbo has managed to nearly triple the legal speed, and the Garden State cutoff is only half-mile away. Reptilicus has returned to lower Manhattan, letting the Porsche smooth back down to 100 for the long sweeper back to New Jersey. ”

“The first Turbos were fitted with 3-liter engines, but prior to 1978, when the emergence of the BMW M1 became imminent, Porsche President Dr. Ernst Fuhrmann decided it would be ego-wise to up the displacement by .3 liter. The result was a 15% increase in torque advantage, most of it coming from the increased displacement. The other part of that percentage was the direct result of the air-to-air intercooler, which allowed a denser charge (greatly cooled down from ambient exhaust temperature). The new engine, due to its need for a new crankshaft, cylinders, crankcase, pistons/rods and 11.8-pound-boost KKK turbocharger (and mandatory intercooler), blew up the Turbo’s list price by a bunch.”

“But the ultimate usually means the end, the culmination of every trick and forethought in their particular books. There was no place to go but out. Their timely demise has made them instant collector’s items. They will become the gullwing coupes and Ferrari Daytonas of old, and they will live ceremoniously in the breast of everyone who knew anything about them.”

History tells us the gullwing and Ferrari Daytona collector’s item prediction did not come true as the bottom fell out of the prices for the ’76-79’s when the 911 Turbo was reintroduced in the U.S. in 1986.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/whales1.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/whales2.jpg

 

You guys are an awesome source of info! Now, I wish I didn't sell #1176.

 

More from “Porsche of Great Price”, Feb 80, Car and Driver:

“A hundred years or so ago, if you thought you were quick with a six-gun and wanted to prove it, you rode off to Dodge City and tried on Wyatt Earp. A lot of enthusiastic young men wound up with holes in them that way. But a few went on to build awesome reputations too. Today, if you think you’re good in an automobile, you strap yourself into a Porsche 930 Turbo. It’s the wildest, orneriest, most play-for-keeps road car I’ve ever sat in, and if you can let one of those muthas full out without getting the tail in front of the nose every once in a while, you’re one hulluva driver in my book. I suppose all the poor loses out there, the wobblers who challenged a Turbo and then had to pick up their tails out the hedges somewhere, are going to clip out this page as expert testimony and take it down to their local product-liability shysters. That’s the kind of era we live in. If your shaver gets away from you and takes a notch out of your chin, you fire off a lawsuit. Make somebody pay. You can’t be expected to look after yourself. Nobody does that anymore. We live in an enlightened generation.”

“Actually, the 930 Turbo had everything necessary to become a collector car right from the beginning. For starters, it was the top-of-the-line Porsche. It was also extremely powerful. Moreover, it was a “homologation special,” a highly modified street model built primarily to legitimize the turbocharger for racing. And the derivative competition car, the Porsche 935, was extremely successful-which, in-turn, reflects favorably on the 930. Finally, the 930 was a relatively small-volume car, with only about 2400 examples sold in the U.S. during a total of four model years, starting in 1976. If all these qualifications don’t add up to a blue-chip collector’s piece, there is no such thing.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/cd801.jpg

 

Here’s a summary of the U.S. 930 0-60 mph magazine road test times.

Please provide additional 0-60 sec times if you have additional U.S. 930 road tests (especially the ’89 cars with the G50 as I only have two listed below). The 0-60 sec times listed below are for unmodified factory 930’s (no Ruf modified cars, etc.) and U.S. ’76-79 930’s with restricted exhaust and thermal reactors.

’76 3 liter
Car & Driver, Dec 75 – 4.9 sec
Road & Track, Jan 76 – 6.7 sec
Motor Trend, Apr 76 – 6.1 sec
Average- 5.9 sec

’78-79 3.3 liter
Car & Driver, Apr 78 – 4.9 sec
Road & Track, Jun 78 – 5.0 sec
Car & Driver, Aug 79 – 5.4 sec
Average- 5.1 sec

’86-88 3.3 liter
Autoweek, Jan 13, 1986 – 5.5 sec
Car and Driver, Jan 86 – 4.6 sec
Road and Track, Guide to Porsche, Nov 7, 86 – 5.0 sec
Motor Trend, Feb 86 – 5.47
Automobile, Jun 88 – 5.5 sec
Motor Trend, Dec 88 – 5.53 sec
Average – 5.27 sec

’89 3.3 liter
Road & Track, Special Series, Feb 9, 90 – 5.1 sec
Road & Track, Special Series, Feb 3, 89 - 4.8 sec
Average – 4.95 sec

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930tests.jpg

 

This rare “non-optioned sunroof” and “non-optioned right mirror” silver 930 was on the back of the Porsche ’79 U.S. flyer. The term “sunroof delete” or “right mirror delete” are misnomers as these were options for the 930’s (in 1979 were $850 and $110, see attached window sticker). Non-optioned sunroof 930’s are much rarer than sunroof coupes and provide more headroom.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930nosunroof.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930nosunroof1.jpg

 

'79 930 with "non-optioned sunroof" and "non-optioned right mirror" and may also be an air conditioner delete.

http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/180145/index.html

 

Motor’s May 19, 1979 road test of the 3.3-liter 930 also highlighted new performance benchmarks:

“The Turbo’s engine specification is formidable: the 3,239 cc flat six with its aluminium head on a aluminium/silicon block (the extra capacity having been achieved by a wider bore and longer stroke) now produces a staggering 300 bhp (DIN) at 5,500 rpm; perhaps even more impressive is the torque figure of 303 lb ft at 4,000 rpm. These figures are respectively an improvement of 15 and 20 per cent over the 3-liter model and they result in truly devastating performance.”

“The acceleration is startling. For our MIRA starts, we were dropping the clutch abruptly at 6,000 rpm, leaving two expensive black lines of rubber on the road for a considerable distance. After only 2.2 sec, the car was traveling at 30 mph, 40 mph came up in 2.7 sec, 50 in 3.7 sec, 60 in 5.3 sec. This last figure and the 0-100 mph time of 12.3 sec also break new ground, making the Turbo the quickest production car we (and as far as we know, anyone else) have ever tested.”

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/79motor1.jpg

 

for me it isn't 0-60. i don't like frying clutches. for me it is the roll on passing acceleration from 50 -120 or so in what feels like 3 seconds.

 

Very true - 50-120 is very impressive and doesn’t fry the clutch.

Motor’s road test also mentioned that the 1979 930 had a second wind at 120 mph:

“Open the throttle wide at 120mph, and you get a firm push in the back from an engine that is just getting into its stride. Keep your foot down and that relentless urge is unlikely to fade before caution suggests it is time to back off.”

 

mmmmmm. you talked me into a drive this am