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Discussion in 'F1' started by Ferraripilot, Aug 30, 2012.

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  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #1 Ferraripilot, Aug 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The most interesting update is Mclaren bringing a very interesting new turning vane configuration which reaches up and over the sidepods meeting more inboard than ever before. Very interesting as this is going to effect some of the clean airflow which travels over the sidepods.


    Ferrari and Mercedes both brought Monza spec wings I suspect both will play with to see how they work at Spa. Mercedes has a new monkey seat over the beam wing as well.
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  2. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #2 Ferraripilot, Aug 30, 2012
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  3. ronrob

    ronrob Formula Junior

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    #3 ronrob, Aug 30, 2012
    What a fantastic photo! Thanks.
     
  4. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #4 freshmeat, Aug 30, 2012
    Looks like McLaren is looking to create some more potent vortex air flow over their revised sidepods...reminds me of the Sauber vanes to honest just a tad more aggressive.

    I wonder if Mercedes is using the curved out monkey seat for a frankenstein'd DDRS from Lotus with their own DDRS.

    I read an interesting article that claimed Mercedes was losing their advantage over fast-speed and long corners because their DDRS lags and forces the drivers to brake harder/sooner. When the driver shuts the DDRS, there is still high-speed air flowing from the rear to the front and this creates an albeit momentary, but still detrimental loss in performance.
     
  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #5 freshmeat, Aug 30, 2012
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  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #6 Ferraripilot, Aug 30, 2012
    I'm reading that the curved turning vanes on the Mclaren are to keep flow attached to the top of the sidepods, this is much the same as how they operate on every other car but in a vertical fashion.

    As for the Ferrari vortex generators in front of their sidepods and Mclaren now using them, I believe I've seen Ferrari run them with and without them depending on the venue for some reason.


    The Mercedes super-DRS actually continues to operate even when the DRS is not open, but only on the front wing and it is only noticeable when a certain pressure is realized. We found it was passively operable by viewing the tubes after Schu's car crashed losing the front wing at one of the wet practice sessions. The tubes showed flow essentially going both ways in the nose, so whether or not flow reattachment is an issue or not is sort of unknown but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #7 Ferraripilot, Aug 30, 2012
    Last year Red Bull ran Monza-spec rear wings, so I wonder if they chose to do the same this year. This is such a high speed circuit it could really turn a lot of cars on their ear given how fickle everything is this year, and it could make some look quite fantastic too.
     
  8. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #8 freshmeat, Aug 30, 2012
    Well it made sense last year because they had the exhaust blown diffuser...not sure if using that same wing this year would be effective, even though they have Newey's "double-floor" design. And even that in itself is questionable now since the FIA banned their torque/ecu mapping at Hungary which allowed for off-throttle exhaust to generate downforce via the double floor.
     
  9. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #9 Ferraripilot, Aug 31, 2012
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    Mercedes W03 triple DRS is what this is being called. It looks to have the Lotus idea and MB idea wrapped up into one neat package.
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  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #10 Ferraripilot, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ferrari have no followed Mercedes' suit in REMOVING the front wing cascades. Perhaps Merc are starting a trend with this?

    More of the W03 DRS change
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  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #11 freshmeat, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lol, I called it! I saw it in action briefly in P1, P2 was a wash literally.

    As for Ferrari's front wing, I posted a nice shot of it yesterday on a separate board. They had the top cascades removed in the last 2 races before the break, if anything Merc copied Ferrari. Check it out, courtesy of next gen-auto:
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  12. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #12 Ferraripilot, Aug 31, 2012
    I have seen that pic! This makes me wonder if perhaps they have figured out some connection between the tires and the wash which the cascades provide. Or perhaps if the determined running more static wing angle with no cascades provides the same DF but minus the wash. Interesting to see how this plays out for Ferrari and MB. Those cascades are worth a bit with how they were being used but perhaps they are experimenting with a next gen idea. We shall see
     
  13. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #13 Remy Zero, Aug 31, 2012
    Either i'm getting old...i just can't tell the difference between the previous Mclaren and the Mercedes.
     
  14. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #14 Ferraripilot, Aug 31, 2012
    Don't make me come and find you.
     
  15. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #15 freshmeat, Aug 31, 2012
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    Yep, it seems like the additional cascades weren't really "cleaning" up the air flow to the rest of the car so Ferrari has incrementally been removing the layers of cascades over the last few races. In Hungary, they still had a small piece closest to the outer edge/wall but as you can see in this latest pic, they've just gone and removed it completely.

    Any idea what this weird hump under the Lotus front end is all about?
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  16. Ferrari_Michael

    Ferrari_Michael Formula Junior

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    #16 Ferrari_Michael, Aug 31, 2012
    Are you serious, isnt it obvious...


    Cause it looks cool. And you sounded so smart in your previous posts.

    Some people...
     
  17. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 Fast_ian, Aug 31, 2012
    Dayum! "The more things change, the more they stay the same!"

    The "cutouts" in the mainplane were around *way* back in the day. Then they go down the multiple cascade elements route, then back from where they came it seems!

    Then, as we know, bits fall off and the damn thing goes quicker! Aero is getting out of control! [Cue the "ban aero" nerds at this point ;)]

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  18. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #18 Ferraripilot, Aug 31, 2012
    The pelican underside of the nose is conjectured to simply be there to condition air as it makes its way from there to the sidepods and around.
     
  19. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #19 Fast_ian, Aug 31, 2012
    +1

    It's also forcing the air to travel further. Mr Bernoulli told us that high-speed air = low pressure air, so I can see it also providing a little more D/F.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  20. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    #20 classic308, Aug 31, 2012
    Shame that engine development is stymied while the cars keep adding wings and such-saw guys driving around the Bronx in Integras with these wings 10 years ago....
     
  21. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #21 Fast_ian, Aug 31, 2012
    Exactly my point! It all starts with F1. :) "Improves the breed old chap!...."

    Multi-plane front wings were all the rage in F1 back then (& before)....... They also worked on an F1 car - Integras, not so much....... ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     

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