2012 FORMULA 1 SHELL BELGIAN GRAND PRIX: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

He's gonna need a bigger wing.

 

I've watched a replay again and LH does move further to the right than my photo (posted above). As things happen in milliseconds at the start like this I retract my comments. I'm wrong.
Pete

 

Helicopter cam it looks like Gro does a double movement into Lewis.

But does Lewis brake after making contact?

edit: check here for embedded video http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/09/SpaF1crash.html#more
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Err, um Air Grosjean.

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Hmmm ... those photos make me think again LH could have moved a little to the right and changed the whole situation. But what's done is done and who cares anyway other than it took Alonso out.

Pete

 

I surely wouldn't have had the nerves to push the photo trigger in that moment

 

MS clearly cut Vettel off, regardless of Vettel's plans. He's a menace sometimes too.

It gets my vote too; incredible pass.

Indeed. Speed is the worst by far IMO. They need fresh blood.

Ha ha. They need to find real talent.

Vettel was 14th after the first corner mayhem, so he made up 12 places .

He never blamed him; just said LH could have avoided the accident. And I agree. But honestly, didn't expect him to do that. But at some point in his life he'll realize it's better to lose a position than DNF the race. Hopefully while he's still employed .


Glad FA came out unscathed. But he was having too much good luck of not DNFing any races, like the rest of the contenders. Hopefully it's the last. He still has a sizable lead. The WDC is not in his bag yet, but the odds are in his favor. My question is if FA wins the WDC and Ferrari doesn't win the WCC (almost a given), would they change the plaques on the cars from the almost ridiculous 2008 WCC win??? Just curious . Looking forward to the last races of the season.

 

I also agree that the pass on Schumacher by Kimi is pass of the year. The whole thinking behind it was brilliant. Kimi quickly realised that by passing him at the bus stop shoe would just pass him on the DRS in any case. By sticking close behind him and triggering the DRS, but then passing him before that still allowed him to use the DRS whilst he was already ahead, and able to pull away far enough that shoe couldn't pass him on the DRS the next lap .

RE grosjean/Hamilton situation; Without doubt GJ is to blame, but a lift/tap from the brake could have avoided it perhaps. Anyhow, what's done is done, it makes the championship more exciting and no one was hurt. win win.

 

Is that how you saw it? I saw MS have to back out of it (hence the sudden speed difference that saw Kimi jump past) and then tangling with the FI, which caught up due to MS's loss of momentum....then the little dice with the FI after that gave Kimi the chance to leap ahead and out of reach. A perfect outcome for Kimi.

 

The FI tussle was a bonus.

 

+1 precisely how I saw it too. Regardless, good pass. Schu's pass right back on Kimi after wasn't bad either

 

Yeap, KImi is on top of his game again, and as i said it before, i belive he will probably become 2012 world champion. To me he still is the most talented driver in current f.1 (by far), and the Lotus seems to be the best all rounder this year. Fernando's lead had a big cut and unless Ferrari step up it´s game, they wan´t be able to keep Seb and the Iceman behind untill the end....on the other hand, we will never know what Fred couls have done in trhe race, watcging the way everything unfolded, i think he had a shot a disputing a podium finish.

 

I hear you, and basically agree. But, the fact remains that he gained 9 places from his grid spot. That's more forward movement than anyone else managed. The guys that crashed weren't just taken out of Phil's way after all.....

Should he have qualified further up? Sure.

Could anyone outside of Fred ( or the others of the 'big 3-4) put it as high up the grid? I don't believe so.

He's having another poor season, but I still maintain theres nobody out there that would be doing any better at this stage. I guess we'll see next year.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Because of the carnage on the 1st lap, the Grid spot means nothing.

By the end of lap 1 Massa was 11th and Vettel was 12th. By the end of the race Vettel was 2nd and Massa was 5th. Massa was impressive how?

No you can't compare next year to this year. You can only compare 2012 to 2012

 

Get a job

 

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I don't think I ever said 'impressive'...... Just that he did about as well as could be expected.

I reckon Freds new #2 (whoever it may be) is in for a hard time and we'll start hearing 'why'd they ever can Phil!?'

Cheers,
Ian

 

I almost started a new thread, but it's certainly a spoiler in more ways than one!

From Autosport;

I dunno - Sounds like they're gonna be surrounded by scaffolding. I can't see them agreeing anything for 2014 though.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1. Its a no win situation for the next Scuderia Alonso victim. Zero proof anyone will do better in the Ferrari. Zero.

 

Fully agree with the position on the Grosjean ban. I saw the language last night and thought they only care about the front runners LOL!!! Thats a touch odd of a verdict....

link for the rest of the article - http://planetf1.com/race-features/8048264/Conclusions-From-Belgium


"Romain Grosjean might have deserved a ban but he didn't on the terms set out in the stewards' verdict...

Grosjean's ban remains harsh on these terms
Though a very strong argument can be made for Romain Grosjean deserving a ban on account of his penchant for first-corner collisions and, more pertinently, the need for F1, as the pinnacle of motor-racing, to set an example both in driving standards and for the value of safety, the fairness of the verdict is far less compelling on the terms set out in the stewards' judgement.

Their subjective nature was made apparent on Saturday night when they opted to defy convention and demote Pastor Maldonado three grid places rather than the standard five on the basis that, although he was guilty of hindering Nico Hulkenberg, the Force India was still able to escape Q1. Hmm. Abandoning convention and objectivity is a risky business when meting out any form of justice - and so it continued to prove on Sunday night.

For Grosjean was not punished on account of his own penchant for risky business this season or the sport's overdue requirement to deliver a proper deterrent against recklessness. Instead, he was suspended because his error 'eliminated leading championship contenders from the race' - a curious and dangerously arbitrary criteria on which to base so swingeing a penalty.

For swingeing it certainly is. Ignore all the misapplied clichéd talk of his suspension being equivalent to a slap over the wrist; Grosjean's suspension amounts to a public flogging and will forever remain a permanent stain on his reputation. Not since 1994, when Michael Schumacher's reputation was at its most notorious, has a driver suffered a race ban.

Had Grosjean made a grudge move then it would have been different. But he didn't. Had he been given a prior warning to clean up his act then a suspension would be palpably fair enough. But he wasn't and it isn't. And had the stewards cited the number of first-lap incidents Grosjean been involved in during his nascent career - seven in twelve races this season - then any verdict on their verdict would require a different perspective. But they didn't - and in any case, 'involved' does not constitute blameworthiness. The thought lingers that Grosjean has been punished because of the crash's aesthetic and circumstantial evidence; put another way, would he have been suspended had Hamilton simply been shunted into the grass or the drivers concerned piloted a HRT?

The stewards, surely, have lurched into dangerous territory themselves by making such a self-acknowledged subjective ruling.

None of this is to say that Grosjean was not to blame for triggering a horrible chain reaction which could have ended in a casualty and not just carnage. He left Hamilton no room and, by putting the right-front wheel of his Lotus between those of Hamilton's McLaren, gave his rival no escape; whether Hamilton speeded up or slowed down, a collision had already become inevitable.

Yet it was nonetheless a slight mistake, literally the width of a tyre wheel, and was transformed from the relatively minor to major by circumstance rather than degree. It wasn't, for instance, as blatant as when Pastor Maldonado returned to the Valencia track to ram Hamilton into the barriers. Not by coincidence is Valencia chosen for illustration because it offers a trenchant reminder in the shape of Alonso's pass around Grosjean's Lotus at the restart that the Frenchman is a fair driver; it takes two to tangle for F1 to dance like that.

This weekend, Grosjean made a mistake, but it's hard to make a defence of a punishment that only fits the crime of consequence rather than the crime actually committed. "

 

+1 Enough said, and exactly the way I see it.

I think most Hamilton haters accept it that way as well.

 

I can go with that, the problem seems to me with Grosjean's driving off the line is, he appears to make a bee line straight for Hamilton for no apparent reason, and is not content with just closing him down, but locking into his wheels, more or less like stock car racing behaviour.

As with talk of closed cock pits now, it is clear the message the stewards/FIA want to send out, is enough is enough, ok the cars are remarkably safer today, but as we have seen Alonso could have lost his head, and that sort of driving is totally unacceptable.

 

+1

He's been involved in first lap shunts in 7 of 12 races!........

One could argue he's just been *very* unlucky, but there comes a point where they've got say "enough already!"

I do think they seriously screwed up with the "leading contenders" comment and reckon we won't hear that again. But, I don't think PF1's analysis is correct (it very seldom is IMO) - He didn't get the suspension because he wiped out McHam - He got it for "consistent" bad behavior IMO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

True enough, agreed.

 

The Stewards should have just said that - a pattern of wreckless driving. End of.