THE F70 (LaFerrari) Thread

I hope Ferrari doesn't make this into a senseless downforce-race. People seem to keep forgetting that at the end of the day, both the P1 and the F70 are street cars. And on the street, you actually can have more downforce than you need. Ferrari would be perfectly capable of building a car that at least meets the specifications of the P1. Both McLaren and Ferrari know a thing or two about building competitive competitioncars. If the F70 delivers less downforce, it is because Ferrari choose to go a different way in their concept, not because they weren't able too match the P1. Building a better looking car shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

You can't tell length as both have sub frames. This isn't a chassis.

It's a Tub to which sub frames will be attached. The top of the McLaren Tub
isn't structural either.

The question is the F70 tub cockpit smaller?

What did you think of the F70 photos?

 

In cars of this calibre I suppose it is all about bragging rights and laptimes and not about driver enjoyment. I sold my Stradale and got a Carrera GT and even though it is TWICE as fast and such it is NOT as much fun to drive.

 

If the F70 doesn't have the downforce of P12 it's because Luca
said no to a wing.

Have you ever driven a high downforce car?

I have and can't imagine any instance where you'd want less rather than
more except at VMAX and that includes on the street.

 

That is absurd amount of downforce. For comparison 599XX makes ~620lb at 125MPH that is down half to P1!


Now if only Infiniti/RedBull get Adrian Newey to design their own supercar.

 

No interior fitted - see post 1974 link

 

Absoutley, but the tub seems to overhang the engine somewhat, so naturally I'd expect the subframe to be shorter in that instance. The front is simply going to have radiatior mountings and probably a crash structure, but essentially the front wheelbase is set at the wishbone mount points. Rear is variable, but as I mentioned, the tub looks like it will cocoon some of the engine.

The top of the McLaren tub is plastic and manufactured by Lotus composites, unless in the instance of a spider, in which case the Webasto roof takes its place, and is of course not structural, BUT, the weight quoted by Ferrari INCLUDES the roof element, the McLaren does not.

The inside of the F70 tub seems smaller than an Enzo, it has much, much lower sills, and a bigger door opening, but with the moulded seats and dash bar, it certainly seems smaller on the inside. The central tunnel element width seems about the same, but is made up of a small pocket in between the seats, and the seat back forming around onto each other.


I'm told this is going to be LHD only also.

 

It has one but windows were blacked out as was engine cover.

 

Forgot to say also, the ABSOUTE, BEST, FUNNIEST thing was seeing Ron Dennis looking at the tub, he spent ages on the Ferrari stand talking (or i should say mumbling)to various people!

Can't say he looked impressed, and was mainly talking about P1, ON the Ferrari stand. Just thought I'd share that.

 

I disagree with the notion that you "need" huge wings to create large amounts of downforce. Due to current racing regulations requiring flat bottoms and severe limitations on diffusers and active aero (i.e, 2J style fans), wings are a big part of the downforce equation in a lot of modern race cars. However, if you take the rules away, you can create massive downforce simply by shaping the bottom of the car correctly. The rear wing becomes as much a trim device as a signficant source of overall downforce. Group C/GTP cars the pre-flat-bottom F1 era demonstrate this.

Racing regs don't apply to these cars, so it is quite possible that a large amount of downforce can be created with fans and/or venturis. A rear wing can, of course, help you to create even more and, when combined with a variable angle of attack, give you options for balancing the car's aero load, possibly microsecond by microsecond, under computer control. If Ferrari has been aggressive with its active aero development, it may be possible to match or exceed the McLaren's downforce level without a rear wing, especially if the car's footprint is larger (more aero surface to work with).

Those of you who have seen the new F70 - does it have cycle-style front fenders along the lines of recent LMP cars? The mule photos I have seen suggest that it does, with the front fenders nearly totally separated from the nose, and totally open to the rear. Is there some sort of front diffuser that exits through the resulting large openings?

 

In a fantasy world I would have both. I kind of see why people would get so passionate about one brand or other. They both have their fans.

But hating or trying to make one look smaller than the other is very ignorant. People hating on the Mclaren, let's be honest here while Ferrari has been in the game of supercars much longer than Maclaren, but when the F1 came out of nowhere and floored anything and everything at its time there was no response to it from any manufacturer, and correct me if I am wrong but is there a production ferrari that has beaten the 231mph top speed rating of the f1? In my eyes the F1 looks better than any of the modern ferrari hypercars.

Similarly the 458 absolutely smashed the mp4-12c in a lot of aspects, granted the mac is faster, the ferrari is close enough in speed and way more involving from what I'm reading, and sounds amazing. And looks absolutely incredible.

I am not the biggest fan of the styling of the P1, but I have no doubt the thing would be silly fast.

Ferrari has not released any sketches or anything so I can't comment on the styling so far it's a 50/50 for me (love the 288 and f40, don't like the f50 f60 enzo), so I will wait till the thing gets released before I say something about the styling.

This is a very ambitious project for technology compared to the f60. Rumored pushrod suspension a first for a road ferrari, Kers system for a road car, a first of any car, Projected 750+bhp/tonne which is a ridiculous bump from the predecessor.

Mclaren lacks the road car experience Ferrari has but don't question their competency.

In my eyes if there is a proper rival to ferraris it is Mclaren.

Lamborghinis in my eyes have the shock and awe factor. Loud, angular, ridiculous, but truth be told I'm struggling to think of a lamborghini that had been comparable to its period ferrari rival as a drivers car. The countach was all show, in other words no match for the 288, the diablo was a straight line rocketship, but couldn't touch the f40 in any other aspects, the murcie or at least its later variants had the sweetest howl of any street v12 I have heard. But the enzo was faster still than the lot of them. And now the aventador comes out with all its big 700hp cooked brakes and all, and the f12 is again above it.

Now my question is how does this pair compare to the porsche 918?

 

Infiniti had the potential. They were looking at a halo car. Red bull F1 is sponsored by infiniti, the connection was there, don't know why nobody did anything with it.

 

Mr Glickenhaus,
the 599xx is heavier than the P4/5 and it used Michelin customer slicks that are, by far, less grippy (and more durable) than a racing soft slicks that I suppose were equipping your racing car.

 

Maybe he's stolen some Fchat accounts cause that's exactly what's happening in this topic...

 

I'm sure multiple Enzo owners will tell you 217 is NOT the top speed on an Enzo, and 230 HAS been reached (GPS) this is a standard Enzo, not highly modified as the F1 was to achieve this.

Second comment... Eh?

 

Michael is correct. While that 231 or 241 number gets a lot press, the McLaren F1's sold to actual customers were redline-limited to 217. This was proven in a Road&Track test back in the 90's. The car was driven by Mario Andretti. A Lingenfelter ZR-1 hit 218 but was disqualified after failing an emissions test.

 

Luca, simply, doesn't care.
Do you think that a 6.45 ring time McLaren P1 will sell more cars than a good looking and fully enjoyable F150 ?
I hope McLaren have learnt something from the past.
The McLaren F1 was the fastest straight line car ever produced but it have sold only 68 roadcars ... and it was a waste of money for the company.
We are talking about sellable roadcars.
Cold numbers are interesting, than you have to enjoy a car.

 

So there you go then 2 generations later the enzo beat the f1 in the top end run. So in that respect the f1 was 2 generations ahead in the straight line. As for the enzos true top speed. I was not aware of the underrated top speed of it. Thanks for telling me.

Now I need you guys that have more experience with these cars to tell me how the f50 fared against the f1 in the corners.

 

http://www.gtspirit.com/2012/09/27/ferrari-f70-monocoque-on-display-at-paris-motor-show/?pid=67258&gallery=5444#tp

Check these great shots out....
Ferrari also confirm with the label in front of the Tub "Next limited Series" that there will be more than one version

 

Typical Ron. He thinks McLaren knows best but is always humbled by Ferrari!

 

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Well the F50, with it's PUSHROD suspension, is a very formidable track weapon, I will leave it there.

 

So true!!!

 

Right you are, my mistake I forgot that the f50 had pushrod suspension. I am a total genius at times.

Ha, aventador eat your heart out.

Must do some bench racing and find out lap times even though I can't afford the lugnuts off either of them.
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The Enzo also has a pushrod.