Slicks on 458

Driving on slicks when the tires are still cold is like driving on ice. Big crash and teary eyes.

On a road car slicks are pointless in any case, even if only for track use. The suspension will be too soft.

Rather invest in a proper driving instructor and help get the most out of your car as it is. It'll help you get much more used to the car and it won't react different on roads compared with slicks.

 

have you ever driven on slicks before? If not I would not start with the 458

 

One other thing to consider is heat cycles. After each run the tires performs less that before. When I was running Formula Atlantics, we tried to have a new set when qualifying.

 

to get the most out of a set of race tires, you will need/want to make some significant setup changes to the car (camber, toe, corner balancing, etc). Those same changes will likely make the ride quality on the street less fun.

While the 458 (road car) is phenomenal, even on the race track, the suspension, damping, even brakes are not tuned for slicks. Sure, you can tune it...but how far, at what cost, for what outcome?

A good friend just started to track his 458 at our club. Recommended an extra set of wheels/tires (Michelin PSS or Pirelli PZero Corsas), considering a higher-temp brake pad, and race fluid in the brakes. for a road car, that's a great compromise.

Depending on the track surface, layout and driving technique, tires may last 1-2 days. "Street" tires also are more progressive, slicks grip grip grip and then let go...

Good to hear you're going to track the car! It is a blast. While pricey, consider the Ferrari Driving Experience in Mont Tremblant. Great track, you drive 458's, but the instructors are simply phenomenal teachers. You'll leave a few seconds faster on street tires...

 

What is your objective?

If you insist on mounting "slicks", first drive around a "skid pad", testing imits of adhesion and car control. A race track is a bad place to "learn". Best

 

One other thing to consider is the added wear on your suspension. Bushings don't like the extra stress generated by slicks. Now I could be ignorant and the 458 uses full spherical bearing set instead of bushings, but I doubt.

Slick tires would require a slight adjustment to the suspension. No biggie, but just remember to alter the geometry to optimize for track driving, then re alter for street, because with the setup optimized for grip your tire wear would also increase.

Honestly if you have never driven slicks, I would recommend starting with something slower. Because they react quite different in relation to road tires. There are others that are significantly more experienced than me that would be able to tell you about it in great detail.

But if you were hellbent on learning slicks, grab a used miata or mr2 in good shape learn slicks in that then get rid of it once you have learned the tire behaviour.

 

Street tires grip, slip, slide, squeel.
Slicks grip, grip, grip, snap-spin.

If you do not know how the tires are talking to you through the steering wheel, slicks are a recipie for a visit to the body shop. They make you feel like a superhero up until the moment you become a superzero.

 

Must say, some great responses here. This is a great site, where we can all learn from a question posed by someone and some real informed answers.

Thanks for all the informed input!


Onno

 

Let me insert my usual track advice (rant) here -

I have a few younger associates that I encouraged to come to the track with their cars, once they start getting into it, the same thing always happens.

- they are immediately looking to make part changes to "go faster" rather than looking at addressing the issues that effect durability and reliability in a track environment.

The main object (IMO) of tracking a car - and the biggest enabler to "go faster" is so often lost - <<< driving time>>>. Driving is a hand-eye coordination challenge - good driving takes time and a consistent vehicle. The goal IMO should be to do those things that make it easier to get the maximum repeatable laps with the least effort- if things are breaking or costing a bunch of money, laps are going to suffer.

Unless or until you are going head to head, the absolute lap time is irrelevant - it should be about consistent and decreasing times first - then I suppose when you are bored with that - it is time to go for the gum-ball tires, radical suspension and shaved heads and seek lap records.

I couldn't agree more with Entropy on this. Do those things that let your car tolerate track laps first. Then take a look at things that boost performance and drive up the cost of driving.

Personally I never do anything to a road car beyond this first level. If what you really want is man vs man competition where absolute times matter, then join in to whichever racing class that appeals to you at your local track, the car will probably be less expensive too.

 

To use slicks in the 458 Italia, the car needs several upgrades:

- front and rear brake cooling ducts
- 19" wheels
- new shocks and vastly stiffer springs
- replace the suspension rubber bushings with monoballs or Delrin
- Track brake pads

Slicks only gain 1 second over a 60 secs track compared to Hoosier R6. On a 2 minutes lap, slicks would only save 2 secs per lap compared to R6. Slicks are good for 2 track session, then their performance goes down, and they are toast in 8 heat cycles (8 track sessions of 15-25 minutes). Hoosier R6 last 2-3 times longer, while not giving up much grip to race slicks.

Most drivers are several seconds slower than a Pro driver at most racetracks, so driver's training is where the improvements on lap times will come.

 

And here I thought we can just throw slicks on and party like Tom cruise in that NASCAR movie

 

Other than "recreational" track days on occasion (not frequently), I don't think the 458 out of the box is ideal for track use. The car is tuned for the street, where it's suspension compliance pays off. It's too softly sprung for hard track use, and IMO would not work well with anything much stickier than it's OEM tire, the Michelin supersport. Plus it's a very expensive way to track. Now the 458 challenge, that's the ticket for high rollers ($$$) who want to have fun at the track.

 

days of thunder ; )

 

Lol that's the one. I don't care for NASCAR but I enjoyed that movie

 

Saying that driving on cold slicks is like driving on ice is an over reaction. It is true that they will not be as sticky but they will still give you traction. The truth is that the average sports car does perform better on the track with stickier tires. If you were to ask almost anyone at a track day they will say that there is a notable difference with better tires. It is true that the car will perform better if it has stiffer suspension but it is not needed to make softer compound tires work.

 

Agreement with the above and want to add that speed is a byproduct of clean driving- not putting your foot down.

 

Agree 100% - one thing I've learnt from the 2 Ferrari driving courses I've done is that I'm not as good as I thought I was and have a lot to learn. It's a pleasure learning from drivers that are smooth, controlled and really know how to get the best out of the cars. Learning is fun though!!

 

The trend now is straight race as every car maker is trying to add boost (power), why you still want to increase your lap time?

 

I think if you are interested in slicks for a 458 the Pirelli Trofeo R is as close as you will get...

 

I run the Trofeo R's on mine, and they are a great compromise for a combo street/track car. Strongly suggest the Trofeo's with a good track alignment, and you have a combo that is very competitive on track with some all out race prepped cars.

 

This thread was revived from 2012 and the OP has owned a 458 Challenge car for some time...

That said the Mich Cup2 tires are a big improvement on the track over the Mich Pilot SS.

 

A few things.

I won't comment too much about running slicks on the Italia as many have already done so. But I would run Trofeo R's and not the DH. Get a good race shop to set up the car for Trofeo R tyres, i.e, a bit more camber and what else is needed. The car won't need as many changes to work with Trofeo R's as with DH.

Anyways...

To those that told you, you could not use 19" rims due to technical issues? That's not the case. If the tyres provide traction, the ESC needs to work less, pure and simple.
As for creating other issues, no. The system does not know what size rims are on the car. The system can sense the front to rear diameter difference due to rotational speed, that's it! The Italia has a front to rear difference of 6,5%, and as long as that does not vary less than +/- 3%, the width and overall diameter won't matter. If you run the Trofeo R's in 265/30R19 and 325/30R19, you will have a set with an overall smaller diameter, which should help acceleration and breking as the mass is less and it will act as a shorter final drive, but the front to rear difference will be the same as the OE tyres.

As for how small rims fit on the 458? I believe Forgeline can make their Comp series GA1R Open Lug in an 18" size that fits the 458. A super light and strong wheel. I would not be surprised if HRE could make an 18" as well.

OZ makes their Forgiata specifically for the 458 in a 19" size as well.

 

Will 18" wheels fit around the front ceramic rotors and the calipers on a 458? I know I have to run 19" wheels on my Scud just to clear the calipers and rotors. 18" wheels are not an option as far as I'm aware of.