Saratoga Top on Ebay

Whatever path you take, I hope you get a top, Buddy.

 

Two weeks ago a copy sold on eBay for $220. Could get much higher with Christmas approaching.

 

I still think it is way too much for this book; it's a nice book, agreed it has some errors and omissions here and there, but is nice to have nevertheless. But at this price, it makes no sense to me. I should have bought a full carboard box of these five years ago.

 

Thanks for the thought, Mark; but after some soul searching, I think I shall not follow the "bid war" to the bitter end on the E-Bay Saratoga Top. You may find this strange, but it is not a question of money, I was willing and prepared to go rather high.
But I agree with you that such "bid wars" are damaging the market and hurting the community of owners as a whole. And I live just fine without one; it would only be an amusing thing to have, but I can do without.
So I have set me a limit that I shall not exceed, whatever happens; and whether or not this will prove sufficient to get one, either on E-Bay or in a private deal, time will tell...

Best

 

Did you see that Saratoga top's owner sold a original 308 battery cover in great condition for just $55.00 last week? Check his completed auctions. These covers are rare as hensteeth and can sell for over $175.00 on a regular basis. Someone paid the buy it now and snapped it up fast! There are threads on Ferrarichat discussing where to buy these battery covers and if they should be remanufactured as they are rare. He listed it cheap and sold it for $55.00.

He also had a cheap reserve on the Saratoga top - LESS than what some stock 308 tops are listed for on Ebay. Its just the supply / demand market actions that drive prices up, more specifically its the abundant discresionary income that Ferrari owners have. nothing wrong with that.

If we were bidding on parts for a chevy........

 

"... the abundant discresionary income that Ferrari owners have."

Maui WoWie?



How much do you know about the average 3x8 owner? Or any owner?

Their are alot of guys here you would NEVER guess that own a Ferrari by their occupiation (HINT: They beyotch about $3.00 / gallon gas).

 

most 308 owners I know have at least 1 other Ferrari. Some have other collector cars too. yes they complain about $3.50 per gallon gas as they drive their new SUV's to the airport to catch that flight to Italy with their wife and kids. How many times can they visit the factory......? some spend 10K on wheel tire combo's, 2k on a sound system, $400 for fender badges, something tells me that 308 owners are above average in intelligence, education, cultural interests and savings.

There are few Ferrari's in the world per production numbers, and owners are a select breed........ todays 308 owner is tommorows ENZO owner (in 25 years)

 

That top contains most of the work needed to produce a clear one. All the fiberglass section is there and they must have made a mold for it, and for the top section. They should turn to making clear tops.

 

Thats a really sweet carbon fiber top. I know that Carbor fiber didn't exist in the car world when 308's were originally made. But its a nice item. I wonder why they do not offer it complete with the latches and pins. I would rather not strip original top to use the CF one. Would like 2 tops ready to go that I could switch at any time. Plus I don't want to doalot of adjusting if the parts don't line up right or somethings off.

But its a nice top.........I would really like CF bumpers, to cut the huge weight hanging on the car. Ever take the bumpers off? They are like a piece of armco on bumper shocks

 

Very good point. Someone tell them & squish this Saratoga bubble. However

 

Wow...that's amazing.

Hope it was a nice one...

 

Smokin' deal on the battery cover!

 

no way I am taking the latches and pins out of my soild factory top to reuse in a CF top. There is no way to make sure the threads will not be stripped in the original top, then it won't latchup in the future. and squirting JB Weld into the bad thread holes.....not for me.

If you make a product - make the whole thing, latches and all, ready to install. Otherwise don't offer it.

I would like CF bumpers for a 308, hood and rear trunk lid (they weight a ton). then toss out the spare tire, the girlfriend too and you have a lightweight "special". I will leave the top off my car to save the 20.342 lbs....

 

Some more thoughts on how to produce this.

Last week I hacked into a top because I bought a "new" standard one from Ferrari some time ago but it was an original carb 308 one (the last one they will ever have) and didnt remotely fit my car when I got around to trying it. So I know a little about their construction.

The frame part is hollow fiberglass and is integral with the flat parts which fits above the top-windscreen seal and the rear seal. So there is one structural part with the curved top glued to it.

This frame section would need to be made from fiberglass in a mold. The mold could be made from an existing top and the center rib removed. It would likely mean sacrificing a top.

A tricky part would be laminating in bushes for the pins and tapped plates for the latches as these would need to be in exactly the correct place so a jig would be needed to support these. Other than that, it would be a straightforward piece of fiberglass molding which would be easy to get done. I know people who produce Lotus bodyshell parts who could do this standing on their head.

The lexan top would need a simple one-part open mold with the profile of the top. The sheet material placed on it and heated in an oven, then a template would need to be made for hand-cutting and finishing the edges.

I guess the lexan would need to be masked off and the exposed areas coated with black resin to glue it onto the frame.

The latches are available from Ferrariparts. Pins could easily be made and covered with meltable-lining heatshrink.

The big side foam seals are still available but again very expensive. Suggest re-manufacture using extrusion which would not be too difficult. The side gutter strips might be standard items, certainly the rubber blade section is standard, I just bought some. They are also still available from Ferrariparts but expensive.

So I reckon this whole thing could be made without doing any CAD or making a mold using CNC. Which kind of rules me out as thats what I do!

The project is there for the taking I think, using traditional low-tech methods.

 

it sounds easy till you try. if it were easy there would be many smoked tops made and sold. Ferrari people are picky, if its off by just a bit on one measurement then people are going to trash talk the product to junk status and your sunk. I bet some would take feeler guages to measure clearances on all sides. why put yourself through torture. Just buy FIO common stock and get rich quick

In 25 years, no copies of saratoga have been for sale

 

There were no front targa top rubber seals for years until I made them. Ditto the parts which Verrel makes. Yes there might be easier ways to make money but as an engineer I design and make stuff so thats just what I like to do. Actually I'm started to get tempted to do this...

You are right though in one respect. The brackets for the pins, on the car, and the latch plates on the car are shimmed/adjusted to fit the roof so swapping roofs can present problems as I just found out with my "new" roof which I bought to interchange with a body-colored one. I had to frig around with the roof because I didnt want to adjust the car. I do think anyone selling these would need a disclaimer that it might need the car to be adjusted to fit it.

 

I have installed 1/2 dozen tops (including Saratoga) on my car with no fit problems. Only minor adjustments needed. I doubt this is a widespread issue.

 

Ok thats good info. The problem might be that the 308 top I bought pre-dated service bulletin 90-1 which was when the newer type of roof seal was introduced. Even after making the mods in the service bulletin I still had to do a lot of tweaking but maybe this is not normal.

 

If you can make an affordable copy of the Saratoga then I will buy 1 or 2. I would pay about $1,500 max for each. I am sure others would be lining up to get one. You could buy the Saratoga on ebay, use it as a template and write off the cost as a business expense.

Let me know if you ever get into the business

 

Anyone care to guess what $ this auction will end at?

 

Jim,

I placed my highest bet in one of the two other threads.

 

Interesting. As I only know of 3 that own more than one. And those own TRs or other 3x8s. And even those guys are not affluant. I dont make $75k and there are owners here who make much less.

They all have numerous positive traits in common though.

 

I emailed Ferraricarbon.com and just received this reply:

Hi Andy

Thank you very much for your inquiry.

We are preparing a clear top for 348/355 series at the moment. We will discuss the below with out parts development manager
in due course and will come back to you.

Regrds

Koji Aoki

 

Any idea on price for the clear top and if it comes with the latches and pins?