250 TDF vs 250 SWB

I will do and give him a call.

 

1992 video celebrating 40 years of Ferrari Francorchamps with footage of TdF, SWB, LWB Interim, 250 GTO, 250 TR, 512M, 412P? and Grand Prix of Berlin winner Jacques Swaters with Le Mans winner Luigi Chinetti in 166MM Barchetta s/n 0064M. Great also to see footage of Tour de France and Le Mans winner Olivier Gendebien as well as '61 F1 World Champion and Le Mans winner Phil Hil, Le Mans winner Maurice Trintignant and Le Mans winner Paul Frere.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ra2DGr4Fh0[/ame]

 

Stirling actually won 8 races in the 2 SWBs he raced including 2 Goodwood Tourist Trophy wins and was also leading the GT class at Le Mans '61 before retiring due to a fan blade which sheered a water hose. His win rate was 100% in an SWB if he finished the race.

I haven't read the article recently. I bought the magazine when it came out but can't remember what it said. The particular SWB that Stirling drove in that article is 3067GT which is an alloy bodied Street/Road SWB that we have discussed recently in this thread. Being alloy bodied it has a lighter weight than a standard Street/Road SWB which would have helped its dynamics but wouldn't have the power at about 240 BHP, suspension? or stripped out interior of a Competizione SWB, which if was 61/Comp spec, would have nigh on the same power as a 275 GTB/4. I presume the 275 GTB/4 in the article had a steel body?

Depending on what you are actually looking for in this next car you buy, as you have a 275 GTB/4 (with IRS), a truly great Ferrari, you may be disappointed with a standard Street SWB, though I do think a Competizione SWB, especially a Comp/61 with its even lighter weight, more or less equal power, stiffened lighter chassis, tuned suspension, stripped out interior and big carbs giving the sound effects to match the 275?, would be the more exciting car. But then again the lighter weight of a standard street SWB over a 275 is going to give you a different and more dynamic driving experience? 240 BHP is quite a lot with such a light weight.

I am not actually qualified to judge not having driven them. There are others here who have driven all these cars. However, I do know that light weight makes a massive difference to the level of excitement offered by a car. I briefly had a Porsche 911 964RS and it is one of the most fabulous cars I have ever driven. It has no more power than a standard 964 911 Carrera 2 but has some alloy panels, thinner glass, a stripped out interior etc and the difference that lighter weight makes is absolutely incredible. The later 993 Carrera 2 in comparison, with more power, felt like a heavy slug. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying a 275 is a heavy slug. As I have said before, and as we all know, the TdF, SWB and 275, in all their versions, are among the greatest cars ever made.

 

Yes, and very sadly, all of these great men are no longer with us.

 

This looks very nice and is for sale:


http://www.dkeng.co.uk/ferrari-sales/306/Blue_Chip_and_Competition_Cars/Ferrari_250_GT_SWB.html
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looks incredible in that color

 

I spent an hour just staring at that car at DK. Quite simply the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, and in 100% condition. Was placed between two enzos (one silver) and a splendid TdF, but I did not notice these cars before 20 minutes. I really need that car. Badly.

 

Its been beautifully restored by Neil Twyman in the UK.......I first sold it for GBP365,000 in 1996 ....now its close to GBP 4 Million.....Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

 

What's the Serial No. of the DK SWB?

 

3487GT.

Barchetta info here: http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/Detail/3487GT.250GT.htm

 

I'm sure I posted this recently but the car went from Peter Beer via me to the late John Nichols who lived both in Chelsea London UK & LA. Price GBP 365K. On his death in 2007 I brokered the car from John's widow to Hugh Taylor. Deal completed in February 2008. Price GBP 2.2 Million. The car had boxes of spares..New Old stock...and a spare unstamped engine still in its crate. Hugh enlisted Neil Twyman to comletely refresh the car. For reasons unknown Hugh sold the car last month to DK for GBP 3 million....DK got the bargain of the decade........It is rumoured that Hugh made the price subject to a 24 hour completion......Value today in my opinion is certainly somewhere between GBP 3.7-4 million.....

10-12 years ago I would sell 2 or 3 SWBs a year now one rarely sees 'Good' cars and they are becoming like GTO's and change hands privately. GBP 4 million is a hell of a lot of money but in a couple of years....no more....I think this price will double. All credit to DK for finding the funds but in my opinion they should mothball it.

 

Good idea - that gives me time to save up.

 

Why! Why ! Why? I find this kind of attitude a little repugnant, sorry Paul I do not mean to be insulting but to moth ball a car like this purely to capitalise on its investment value just puts a spotlight on what is wrong with the classic Ferrari market at the moment.

I truly feel that if you are lucky enough to be the custodian of one of these masterpieces it is your duty to drive it as much as possible just to allow the less fortunate than yourselves to bask in their reflected glory.

With prices going the way they are these cars will continue to fall into the wrong hands of pure investors which can only be a bad thing for all concerned.

Paul if I have misinterpreted your statement above then I apologise but i hope you understand where I am coming from

 

Paul may mean that they should preserve and store the car now for sale when the market will yield an even greater price, as he predicts in his post above.

http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=mothball

"GBP 4 million is a hell of a lot of money but in a couple of years....no more....I think this price will double. All credit to DK for finding the funds but in my opinion they should mothball it."

 

Yeah but the problem with that attitude is that it relegates these cars to being nothing more than very expensive commodities to be traded at the highest price. They are then likely to live out their lives in heated garages and never driven for fear of damage or loss in value due to use. Is that what we want to see happen???

I was so pleased to see 15 GTO’s at the FOS this year. A number were actually being raced which I think is heroic, let’s keep that attitude and not get into pure monetary speculation with these cars

 

I totally 100% agree with you but sadly all the 'To die for' Ferraris have become commodities today...... Some are never even driven and the owners only enjoyment is to watch the market rather than the car. I think Ferrari is almost unique in this sense......I'm thinking of Maserati or even Alfa Romeo from the 1950's-60's. Some beautiful cars there and still at affordable money........

 

I do totally understand but I have to wear 2 hats.....I am an avid enthusiast but also a dealer. The day my dealer's hat gets worn more than my enthusiasts one I will give up...... See my previous text but I hate and have hated for a long while what is happening in this market. You should see and hear some of the buyers I have to deal with....Nearly always there first concern is the investment potential......This is understandable given the figures concerned but so so sad.

 

Putting aside the morals of owning a Ferrari, DK are in business to make money and its my belief that these cars are escalating in value......so if they can afford to sit on the car they should do as it will soon be worth more than it is percieved to be now......

Are these cars worth these astronomical sums ? Personally as much as I love them,I think the world has gone mad.

 

What could be happening with the "ultra desirable classic and rare competition Ferraris" is just a case of supply and demand from extremely rich genuine Ferrari enthusiasts as we witness the GTOs, SWBs and 275s etc being raced on tracks around the world, the GTO Tour etc. Despite the world recession there are many more very rich people in the world today.