Greatest designer of all time

Notable years for Byrne are 2002 and 2004, for newey without shadow of doubt 1992 and 2011. What they've accomplished in an ever tighter field, with more restrictions, is fantastic.

 

Where's Barnard?

Pete

 

You're missing Gustaf Brunner.

 

Thanks for the links. I found it very interesting.

My vote is for Adrian Newey.

 

Got to be Newey, he's working within the tighest set of regulations of any of them and still coming out on top more often than not.

 

This last sentence in the article says it all

"Perhaps even more so than an Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton, Newey is the one man in the paddock every team would love to have on their payroll"

 

All of those on the list were great in their time. But today's F1 cars are incredibly complicated, and require knowledge beyond suspensions and engine tuning.

Newey is #1.

 

Newey? really - are peoples memory that short?

Colin Chapman is singlehadedly responsible for how F-1 is today!

a short list of firsts:

1. tube frame & aluminum skin
2. Stressed member engine & suspension
3. "rising rate" geometry suspension - Lotus 72
4. front wings - spoilers on F-1 car
5. pressurized airbox - Lotus 72
5. - the big one - Ground effects
6. side mounted radiators
8. Monocque chassis construction
9. double chassis car
10. composite construction aluminum/ nomex honey combe
and the list will go on for tiny evolution....

Newey is a good / great designer - aerodynamicist... but the best of all time? not even close. to design a modern F-1 car is EASIER because the rules basically dictate the car for you. Using CFD and all the aero mods may seem hard, but that is becuase we are talking about tiny adjustments - double diffusers etc...

 

Firstly, cool thread Moretti!

No argument from me that he's the best aerodynamicist. Best designer, not so much IMO. Further, one could make an argument that the "tight regulations" make their lives easier as so many of the details are now fixed for 'em.... Oops, as Tom notes;

Sure seems so!..... OTOH, He's been dead for ~30 years () so I guess it's to be expected that many don't remember him the way us old'uns do......

+1 My vote too.

+1

Certainly, they're all (even the minnows) much closer together now than they were. and Newey has certainly come out on top on more than his fair share of occasions. Currently the best? Sure.

Best of all time? Not a chance.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Newey? Not many historians on this forum. I vote for Jano. BTW my favorite Chapman design was the Lotus 88, just brilliant.

 

Chapman was an innovator; Forghieri I believe was the last person to single handily design an entire WDC car (312T series); Newey is currently at the top of his game but Byrne IMHO was better. All of the people listed are brilliant in their own way.

Again if I were to start an F1 team TODAY my first choice would be Newey, more so than any driver.

 

+1. Jano was genius, always thought the Loti were not only great cars but also easy on the eyes (excluding this year's of course lol).

 

+1 right back at you! The original 312T is one of the all-time greats.

 

Adrian Newey, not only that he is still at the Zenith of his career, but the fact that he has been doing so, since the late 80's early 90's.

 

Like drivers it's very difficult to compare designers across eras. Having said that Newey has won constructor championships with three different teams over 20 years.

As others pointed out Colin Chapman was arguably the greatest innovator and gave us a number of breakthrough features that since became ubiquitous in F1 designs. But IMO being the best designer does not equate to being the greatest innovator. The best designer is the one who has developed and raced the most successful cars whether it's by new proprietary ideas or improving those of others. Newey gets my vote.

 

1. Definitely not Colin. Pre war cars had aluminum skin.
2. Lancia D50 had a stressed engine acting as part of the chassis. A Jano design.

Colin was a clever guy though, but his greatest achievement and influence on Motorsport was sponsorship.
Pete

 

Barnard used to single handedly design his cars. He designed the McLaren MP4 (the first successful carbon fibre chassis) that Murray then evolved.

Barnard also gave us the paddle shift gearbox and his Ferraris would have won Prost and Ferrari a WDC if Senna hadn't taken him out at Suzuka.
Pete

 

When I meant aluminum skin I meant as part of the rigidity of the whole car. Chapman & Lotus used tube frame and stressed aluminum for chassis back in the early 60's. I think it was Lotus 23? not sure.

Lancia D50 did not carry the engine with suspension & gearbox bolted as the load bearing part of the car. all the engines were stressed, however Chapman's inovation was that there were no chassis spars to support the engine, it was a fully load bearing part of the car... chassis, suspension gearbox assembly. this is essentially the way all F-1 cars today are made.

Sponsorship could actually be credited to Enzo Ferrari with Shell, Firestone, and Champion... but Champman did it first by calling his Lotus a Gold Leaf Team Lotus...


I really hate to say that it was better in the old days etc... and Adrian Newey is certainly a brilliant engineer.. and winning with three teams is impressive, however Chapman was at thr forefront from 1962 - 1982... he had some lean years 74- 76 and again 79 - 81 but really he was competitive out of the box, and his cars stayed that way for well over a decade.
Newey has been good, but not that good. when he was at March - his cars were good, but failed to really win anything ( partly to driver and funding ) When he joined Williams he inherited a superb engineering staff and system. Williams had already been WDC in 80, 82, 86,... and when he came to McLaren same thing... he inherited a fantastic orginization and made the most of it.

Colin Chapman not only built Lotus from the ground up, layed out the general design of the cars, did the forward thinking and figured out how to bend the rules... all while running a road car company, juggling many girls on the side....bank fraud etc...it gets pretty gnarly when you look at the facts - he was NO Angel!

 

+1

Good post.

 

Colin bought none automotive companies to motorsport.

Not the designers fault but the F1 rule makers AND also the fact that we have worked out how to design/build a race car now. Back in the old days we were still discovering.
Pete

 

C.C.

 

I meant:

Colin bought non automotive related companies to motorsport.

Pete

 

Hmmm..... I (regretfully) think you may be right......

While it's terribly easy to blame the rules makers (got any better ideas?), I suspect you're spot on - "We" now know how to make a fast car.

It's incredibly depressing to think there's no more "innovation" possible however.

OTOH, an "open" formula ("restrict max fuel flow and let 'em at it"), while appealing, is unsustainable IMO.

Cheers,
Ian