what is acceptable on a 308 GTO recreation?

What someone does with their own car is their business. What someone does to a car they customize and sell is also their own business. Where things get tricky in my view is how the car is represented. If someone is selling a recreation/fake GTO as the real thing, obviously that is wrong. If someone is selling it as a rebodied 308 etc., then it is up to the purchaser to decide if they want the real thing or something that looks like the real thing.

I think if someone is manufacturing up a bunch of GTO replicas or whatever, then Ferrari has the right to tell them that they should stop because they are actually trading on Ferrari's brand and that is infringement. If someone consistently builds and sells customized Ferrari's, it seems like that would be OK, just like any other tuner shop. Think about that place that's making those 308 rally cars for example. They aren't the real thing historically, but they sure are the real thing now. Does anyone have a problem with that?

I think in the case of the controversial 308 conversion, the car looks pretty cool. It's not my cup of tea but it was fairly represented and nobody was pretending that it was what it wasn't. So we end up with a neat looking car rather than a pile of parts at T. Rutlands. All in all I think it's a pretty good trade off.

 

+1 I dont think Ferrari is being hurt at all. There are ZERO evil intentions.

 

How is it that Dynocorn, NPD and other multi- million dollar business's exist, knocking-off Ford, Chevy, Toyota parts? Insurance companies tell body shops to use these knock off parts to fix your car. In this case I think Ford Chevy and Toyota ARE being hurt. But it is allowed... ON A BIG TIME SCALE. I have heard that it IS allowed and legal, because those parts were deliberately changed (slightly). Even though the slight change is in areas you'll never see once the fender is attached to your car (ie the body flanges etc...).

I've also heard that once a manufacture STOPS providing replacement parts for a particular vehicle, they no longer can dictate other companies offering similar parts for sale.
A small company may actually be doing the larger one a favor... as the larger one won't have to receive inquiries about parts needed for a car they sold 30-60 years ago. They wont have to stock parts for 40 years. They wont have to build extra buildings solely for the storage of those old parts from cars they used to make decades ago. I'm VERY small time... but was able to help a guy who owned a real 288GTO doing a concours restoration a few months ago, because he needed a front bumper that he COULD NOT buy from Ferrari. No harm done in that sale.

There are valid points of view to the above statement. Ford Chevy Toyota wont have to invest any $$ into storing old parts, making those old parts and keeping them around. Instead they can move onto fresh new ideas to make money. Let the secondary/vintage market worry about all that.

Check out Jay Leno's Garage: Bugatti Type 35 Pur Sang Replica:
www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/bugatti/1937-bugatti-type-35-pur-sang-replica/index.shtml#item=258115
The Pur Sang company exists to replicate the 5 million dollar Bugatti. They have built over 100 EXACT replicas of the type 35 Bugatti. It's VERY interesting (I think) to hear Jay Leno's take on the replica. He is THE car guy... and seems to LOVE the Bugatti. GREAT video. If you love cars and can appreciate this type of work, this video is pretty good.
Jay loves the cars & owns one I believe.

 

Absolutely. 100%. This is what intellectual property is all about. It is then up to lawyers to battle it out. Witness the Apple vs. Everyone Else debacle when the Church of Jobs tried to take ownership of shiny corners.

 

In a country where we value voluntary exchange and private property what's acceptable is whatever the customer and the shop owner voluntarily agree to.

I don't know why you'd what to sway or covet the opinion of anyone else.

 

I'll let you guys know when I get served over my 4Vi to 2Vi conversion

 

That's funny.

 

If I'm not mistaken, there have been fake GTO's and 250LM's and probably TR's that have been OK'd by Ferrari in the past and OK'd for Historic racing.

 

Exactly!! The 288 GTO is not just a beefed up 308. It is a completely different car. I love the 288 bodywork, but I sure as hell would not put it on my 308 QV.

 

Unbadged, but twin turbos are necessary and preferably longitudinally mounted engine and same or lower weight as a 288 GTO should be reached...and don't claim it's a GTO .

 

Ferrari's lawyers are a bunch of bullies that nearly put a lot of small model car companies out of business in the 90s --companies that had been making Ferrari models for decades before Minichamps made it into a licensing cash cow for them. The last thing we need is for Ferrari's lawyers to go after people who modify older ferraris to their liking. Would you advocate that they go after anyone making aftermarket parts?? Please! This whole "copyright" line of reasoning is a slippery slope to "No Fun Village."

To be completely honest the Ferrari of today is a giant licensing company that also happens to make cars. They have raised legal harassment of well-intentioned people to a new level. They don't just go after true counterfeiters, they go after hobbyists. I wouldn't be surprised if FerrariChat has to pay some fee to use that name in their URL.

 

That said; I wouldn't recreate a GTO in the end. I'd keep it a 3x8, add big turbos and wider fenders and sort of leave it at that.

 

Since I'm new here, and still sort of jumping into the community as I may soon be an owner... What if an owner say uses the facia of a GTO style bumper, and some sideskirts, but doesn't rebadge it, still keeps it a GTS? I guess I'm not sure how the community feels about that sort of thing. I understand that originality and preservation is definitely something to take pride in. Does Ferrari consider a replica a replica when someone puts parts on the car and re-badges it as something it isn't? Or when you simply start adding things to it even if it's still badged what it originally was?

 

Those Icon vehicles were at the L.A. auto show a few years back. I think it was them. Really looked good.

 

Yes, but there's also a fine line to be drawn between letting people get on with their lives and protecting the integrity and revenue stream of a brand. It's that fine line we're arguing about.

It's Ferrari that built their own brand equity, so why should they let others profit without asking permission? Allow in one small volume model maker and you allow 1,000,000 from China.

Who else has the right to say how the brand should or shouldn't be portrayed in the world at large but Ferrari themselves?

I personally think they've debased the brand by licensing all sorts of tat such as shower gels. Nevertheless, it's their brand, not mine not yours.

 

They make cool stuff, but it's the opposite of the the 308 to GTO replica in that they take an older model and make it more capable than the original. The resulting product is not a replica of any existing model.

Personally, I have no problem with that approach. If someone wants to make a 308 more powerful, better handling, and alter the looks in a way they feel is better, go for it. Not for me, but I can understand it.

But creating a "better" car out of a "lesser" car by mimicking it's appearance is a totally different story. I'm not going to come down on someone for wanting to do it, but it just seems false to me. It's trying to be what it's not. I rather they just modify the 308 appearance to a new design of their own creation.




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Vacarella, who is profiting here? This thread is about one guy who made a 308 into a 288GTO clone! He may be selling the car, but he isn't selling it as a 288GTO. If that were the case, there would be legitimate concern.

That means all those 246 Dino owners out there shouldn't be allowed to put chairs and flares on their cars either or the lawyers will sue them?? It's up to an individual to modify his car how he likes it. As long as he doesn't pass off a forgery as real, I don't see a problem with that, except that it's bad taste. But taste is taste.

Also, only Ferrari decides who they sue or threaten. If someone was making many copies of their cars in China for purely commercial purposes, it is of course grounds for a lawsuit compared to a hobbyist making a single car for his enjoyment. The fact that those very different intents can't be separated is kind of scary. It reminds me of video game companies that sued hobbyists who were making aftermarket mods for their games. They basically went after the most passionate hobbyists and entire web forums dried up overnight. No one was making any money off it, it was all free downloads. They just didn't want people messing with their product. It's just despicable behavior by the strong against the weak. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

I hear you Wonderbrad. But if you were a 288 owner and your county was flooded with two dozen 308s dressed up as 288s, you'd be rightly upset. Same if my neighbourhood was flooded with Fierorrari owners. I'd be very pissed off. Devalues the brand.

Whether Ferrari would bother getting involved is a different issue.

 

Hey man, I live in Brooklyn. We definitely have some Fierorraris here! ;-)

 

I'll say one more thing--in line with your previous comment. Ferrari themselves have done far more --FAR more to devalue their own brand by overzealous licensing on inferior products than all the counterfeiters in the world combined. Having been to the Ferrari shop in Milan, I can say it is a dazzling array of ugly, tacky crap. Only the top floor has luxury items and those are mainly just expensive for the sake of it (like solid gold sunglasses, for example).

 

Bob was sued by Ferrari for building a 308 based F40 replica during the production run of the F40. He was ordered by the court to burn the molds under supervision. He was also allowed to continue making his P4 replicas but could not sell them with Ferrari badging since they didn't have a Ferrari frame. However badges could be sold to customers in a separate transaction.
I never heard Bob tell me anything about the GTO rebody and Ferrari, other than the 288 GTO molds he had (and still may have I don't know) were taken from actual GTO body panels. As far as I know he wasn't ordered to stop production of his GTO replicas. In fact when I worked under Bob/James, they were assembling a black GTO bodied 308 fitted with a turbo V12 motor with TR heads. It was a project car that may have never been completed. I believe there's a thread here that mentions it somewhere.

In a related note, I was under the impression, that in the past Ferrari required a VIN when ordering GTO fender badges. Not sure about the rear GTO script. This was several years ago so Ferrari may have changed their policies.




I guess if anyone wants particular details about Ferrari and replicas, they should ask Bob.