How is Bernie and the FIA going to help Clifford now?

Am pretty much with you on all that Ian, and believe me I do try to smell a rat.

Only to add we will never know the score for sure, when there is so much money at stake who really knows.

But I want to believe it's about as fair and square as it can be, for a good while now.

 

I like to think we do know..... There's tens of millions at stake in the WCC which is why they won't share the drippings from their noses. Sauber believe they can overtake Merc. Ferrari, Mclaren & Lotus all remain very close. There is NO WAY in the world they're "fixing" races.

+1

Cheers,
Ian

 

There have been persistent measures taken to achieve parity. Spending caps, engine freezes, DRS, quirky tires, etc. etc.
In any sport there will be periods of domination which turn off casual fans and reduce revenue. F1 has done its best to avoid that. Good for the show and good for business but not good for the sport.

 

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

F1 is a business and a show and it is run and controlled as such.

 

Oh, believe me, my eyes are wide open.

Let me ask you straight out; Do you believe there's race fixing going on? Yes or no.

Cheers,
Ian

 

And successfully.

 

Probably not this year (2007 for sure).

This year it is a lot more subtle: FIA policies are created/neglected/enforced to steer the outcome a certain direction. That's not race fixing per se, but steering the championship towards an outcome suiting the business.

I expect much more of that for next year with the goal to dethrone RB/Vettel.

 

Not so much toward a particular outcome, Bernie really doesn't care who wins just that there's an exciting season.
There's no need to fix the game when the house determines the odds.

 

Not completely sold on that. Bernie wants a good show in the short term but he also knows that in the longterm dominating teams have to reined in and fans at some point want to see Ferrari win again. Or even McLaren. The show cannot survive if the most known entities never win the grand prize.

Bingo

But just to be clear: Changing/interpreting/neglecting/bending the rules is a way to steer the WDC/WCC ship. They can change the rules in the Olympics and the results wouldn't be so drastically different as in F1.

 

Well can we all agree on the fact F1 is in a much better place now, without the blatant tampering from that cretin dictator Mosley.

 

That cuts to the issue if competitions so dependent on equipment can be as pure a sport as those without.

 

Blessed are the cheese makers.

 

Did the reason ever come out why the RBR was low on gas? Did they underfill, forget to replenish, or something happened that had them using more (wrong engine map, etc)?

I don't think that was a fix... if it was, it would have had to involve collusion with the team. But if Vettel and RBR were in on it, why not just have him finish 10th or something, and let the race be even tighter?

There most definitely is manipulation going on - maybe less so than prior years. The calls in favor of Massa in 2008 were so blatant as to be disgusting (penalizing Vettel for coming out of the pits and not yielding to Massa, when Vettel has the explicit right of way? come on!). But another example was Renaults mass damper. Adjudged to be legal, but when it was clear it was too good, then declared illegal. A movable aero device - that resides solely in the car? Again... come on!

Luca is a very political guy and I absolutely believe he feels Ferrari is due a certain amount of success in F1, and I don't think he minds making sure Bernie knows this and also doesn't mind returning the favor on occasion (like being the first defector to sign the new Concorde agreement).

 

Fully agreed.

BTW: I'm not complaining about the tampering with the rules or even the occasional race fixing. The entertainment value of F1 has gone way up since the end of 2004 and I greatly appreciate that.

 

+ a million

Can't say whether Vettel's "running out of fuel" was a fix or not. It certainly looked like one but I wouldn't bet on it. The call in favor of Ferrari however was a clear indication of how the FIA (ab-)uses its rules to steer the outcome/show.

 

I still don't believe any races were "fixed", even back then. It was the lunatic manipulating results after the fact to get back at those he felt had wronged him. Not to improve the show.

Anyway, that was six seasons back and the FIA is a very different beast now - Remember, JT suffered under that regime and I'm certain he's not gonna allow it on his watch. Time to move on maybe?......

Nope. With all due respect, you're totally wrong on this. The FIA publishes the technical & sporting regulations - Which have been remarkably stable for a few years now. That's it. If a team (or Charlie himself) believes someone is "circumventing" a rule he'll issue a clarification to said rule. RULES DO NOT CHANGE IN F1 (during the season) without everyones consent. Any team is free to ask Charlie for a clarification any time - And it happens a *lot* during the season as they all probe the limits. Nothing new here. And certainly nothing to do with "race fixing".

You said;

Which implies that person or persons unknown approached Renault and instructed them to intentionally underfuel (by 150mL) Sebs car. Bull**** IMO. Didn't happen.

They simply made a mistake. And paid the same price as McHam earlier. No conspiracy here.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Nope. Wrong again IMO.

Again, the rule says you're allowed to break curfew 4 times without penalty during the season. They broke it on Thursday & Friday nights, hence used two and have two left.

Cheers,
Ian

 

When a team, say RB, comes up with an effective innovation, say the DD, the rules are either reinterpreted mid season or redrawn post season. Either way the advantage is neutralized.

 

And that's a bad thing?

Not yet.....

Which none of 'em are whining about..... Significantly reduces costs for 'em after all.

Requested by the fans..... They're *trying* to give the great unwashed what they asked for....

Which the teams asked for - Running on wooden tires was getting old, and "quirky" tires (which most of 'em now seem to understand) was another way to make it "interesting" - Maybe too interesting in the early part of the season, but as we know, the cream always rises.....

I'm not a "casual fan" I guess. But what's wrong with a level playing field? Seems like all sports want that....

Cheers,
Ian

 

The teams have no reason to rock the boat and risk drowning the golden goose.

There's a difference between leveling the playing field and handicapping the contestants who become too successful.

 

I hear you, but...... I gotta be honest, I thought the DD (Brawn btw) was gonna be outlawed - It allowed them to dominate early in '09. But, Charlie read the rules and declared it legal for the season. He didn't like it much, but there was, according to his interpretation, nothing wrong.

The TWG meets regularly, and they decided to outlaw it for '10. The rules do change as the sport evolves. But it's not to hamper any particular team IMO. At least not since the Lunatic got pushed aside.

Cheers,
Ian

 

It wasn't outlawed then and there because there was insufficient wiggle room in interpreting the rules. But it was killed ASAP.

My point isn't that anyone is out to get any team in general or fix any race in particular but to maintain parity.
That F1, a sport built on engineering excellence and innovation, should come to this is a travesty.

 

Or there was an additional problem that increased consumption.
A problem fixed Saturday night.
We'll never know.