Modern Era V8 Collectiability? Will it be the 355? The 430? over the 348 360 458?

It seems difficult when new cars come out and old cars get old to know what may be collectible in the future particularly in the V8 Ferrari world. With Dinos in the 200k and up range it seems a logical question what may be of value in the future.

The 458 looks and performs great....by today's standards. Will there be faster Ferraris in 10 years? Probably.

10-20 years from now what will be the "classic" V8 Ferrari...and a good investment now?

Here's my thinking on why it may be the 355 Spider. Low production numbers. Just 2664 manual transmissions cars made (3,717 overall). Far more 360 and 430s produced.

355 is perhaps the best sounding V8 Ferrari ever made. In my opinion, nothing sounds closer to an F1 car than a 355 with a Tubi or Captristo. The bigger displacement cars just don't have that F1 scream.

Styling? Sleek, unlike 360/430 yet sleek like 458.
Funny thing is, TR when it came out was thought to be a boat, size wise. It was 176.6 inches long and 77.8" wide.

The 458 is nearly 2" longer than a TR at 178.2" and nearly as wide at 76.3. The 458 is big!

The 355 is only 167.3 long and 74.8" wide.

Interestingly enough, the smaller 355 has nearly the identical luggage space of about 8 cubic feet of the much bigger 458. The old 355 also weighs less than the more modern 458.

The 355 is not as fast as the 458 but with mid-4 second 0-60s and 180 mph top end, more than most Ferrari owners ever use, it's still quick and entertaining.

The 458 is far more refined than the 355 but isn't that lack of refinement what gives a collector car "character?"

458 has no manual transmission. In the future, with the death of the manual transmission, might the best Ferrari with manuals command premiums for their out of style cool factor?

The 430 may have some collect-ability too as it is a much improved version of the 360 but seems to lack classic car styling or will that also change with a new generation of car collectors in the future? The 430 is also the last manual transmission V8 Ferrari. Could the 430 represent the era from the Enzo era cars to the modern cars, signaled by the 458/599?

If Ferrari mass produces the 458 in numbers exceeding significantly the 430 (e.g., with the next generation of the 458 looking the same but with a bigger engine like the 360/430) could the modern V8 collector cars in value look like this?

1. 355 Spider / Manual transmission
2. 430 Spider / Manual transmission
3. 355 Spider /F1
4. 458 Spider

Thoughts?

 

You obviously like 355s, and I agree that it is a very nice car. When it came out, I thought it would be THE future classic.

But, all that changed when the 360s came out. I beleive that the 360s will become the future 'classics.' Note that my track record is very good - I long ago predicted that 275GTBs would outpace (the then more valuable and more highly sought) Daytonas. I also predicted that Dinos would rise to 'stupid' prices, which they certainly have.

What did I make my predictions on? STYLING

Both the 275 GTBs and the Dinos have that voluptuous styling that to me - and apparently many others - SAYS Ferrari. Smooth, curvy, seductive...yet understated. In this respect, they follow the famous race cars of the 1960s and early 1970s - the GTOS, the 275 LMs (I think the 360s are dead ringers for these), and the P3, P3/4, P4s...and we know what kind of prices these demand.

This has all been reinforced by the 430s and the 458s, neither of which have that styling that people seem to love - in the long run. The 430 seems chopped up with odd shaped grills and intakes. The 458 seems busy with odd styling cues (compare the headlight shape of the 458 - contrived - to the headlight shape of a 360 - natural). While they may be better and faster cars, neither looks as 'correct' as a 360 and they will not age as well because of it. So, I predict that, in 2030 or 2040, 360s will be more highly valued.

For what it is worth.

 

^^ The 360 aesthetically is nice but has handling issues that were improved with the 430. 430, no belts. That being said both could be a wash, all things considered?

 

Scuderia and Challenge Stradale. Those are you collector cars, IMHO.


Mark

 

+1

 

Agree. IMHO, the 16M will be THE spider to have in the future.

It has the lowest production numbers of the Scuderia and CS cars.

Plus, it might be the last Ferrari with a soft top.

Right now, the 16M's are kind of a sleeper in the marketplace because the 458 came out soon after the 16M became a available.
.

 

Agreed, the 16M is going to be very sought after I think.


Mark

 

he problem with the modern V8s is that there are simply too many of them to ever become classics in a collectable sense. Now if Ferrari had only mad 266 F355 Spyders, then you might be onto something. With 2664 of them, each one is simply a disposable appliance.

288 and F40 are collectable, F355s are not, neither are 360s, 430, or 458s. Ferrari simply made too many of them.

 

For exotics, I think you better have a well-liked car with production numbers around or less than 1,000.

For modern V8 Ferraris, that leaves the CS.

I'm torn on the 16M. If you're building a hardcore lightweight track car, why offer a convertible?

 

The 360 maybe one of the least collectible 2 seaters of all time. Not only does the 430 do everything better than the 360, but Ferrari made more than 17,000 360s, making it, I believe the most common Ferrari of all time? I think it will end up being in time considered the 996 of Porsches....or like the 348. (348 is cheap substitute for 355/ 360 is cheap substitute for the 430). Also, the styling is less than sleek. I've owned both. People asked if the 360 was "the new corvette" a few years back. No one ever asked if the 355 or a 458 was a corvette. I think the styling you are referring to fits the 355 and 458....not so much the 360/430, IMO

 

Are there no manual transmission 16M Spiders?

 

I would find it very difficult to beleive that any Ferrari produced since the 328 will be collectable.

1. just way to many made,
2. Looks are very bland
3. cost of maintenance will out weigh proper mtns once warranty wears out, so the ones left will need huge $$ to put right
4. Parts availability & electronics will prove to be huge problem...
5. Lack of exclusivity starting with the 360's... again just too many.


I beleive that the 308 - 328 is about the only 80's Ferrari that will eventually appreciate... in 5-10 years it may be $100k... however a new Ferrari will be $450K or more...so its all relative.

While testarossa's the last year and the M's may retail value the looks are just too dated for some... boxer's will eventually be $2-$300K cars... Dino's will be $250 & up... so again its all relative.

 

Nope. 499 of them (well, according to Ferrari) and everyone an F1. There are no manual Scuds either.


Honestly, they will all be collectible on some level. The more rare or respected over time, the higher the value.

The iconic cars will be the 308 (more than the 328 -- the 308 is just more a pure statement of the 80's look), the 355, the 360 CS, the F430 manual, and the 16m--- but they will not all be to the same value or desire. These are the highlights. I don't include the 458 because its still in production and too difficult to judge at this time.

When you buy a classic car, you don't worry about the maintenance and you don't worry about performance. You want a "period piece" that reflects a particular time. You won't drive it much and you'll cherish solving every issue, including electronics.

You buy with your heart and not your head.

 

Each car has its own unique qualities that make it special. To say it's a cheap substitute is saying they are Yugos, which they clearly are not. In their day, they were all great cars - and all those cars were superseded by cars with more advanced engineering and automotive technology. Period. Enjoy and appreciate what you're driving in and don't worry so much about what's "better" than what you're driving.

355 - No. Just no.

360 - CS is definitely a good choice. Those that own them, love them!

430 - Scuds and 16Ms are also a good choice. A race car for the street that is more visceral than the standard 430's and 458s. Coupe or spider, just choose the right interior/exterior color combination.

458 - It's a great car, but not particularly special. it will be overshadowed by the 458's replacement, which will also not be particularly special.

One thing to consider, given the global fuel crisis and where the automotive industry is going, is that in 20-25 years, the only thing collectable about these cars may be dust.

 

There were some recent 328 "time capsules" that sold for $145k (100 miles) and $135k (64 miles). Definitely exceptions to the rule, but I bet there are still more out there...

 

Certain trims of each generation will fetch a healthy premium.

355 gts 6 speed

360 CS

430 16M

Ask yourself. What trim was made into posters or do teenagers use as wallpapers on their computers.

That is the one they want in 20 years.

 

My opinion on the cars that have potential:

348 gtc, 50 made and close to if not the equal if a 355 performance wise.

'95 355 challenge-last race car Ferrari built that could be registered and driven on the road, at least in the USA.
'99 355 fiorano, 100 made

360 CS

430 scud and 16m

They made way too many of the rest.

 

I think those are way over the top, BUT they do show that for ultra low mileage cars there is a market for them... so they will drag up the concours cars and then the A-B-C cars as well. it will be a slow process and regardless of what people like Shauneesy ( sp?) say then will edge up in value but most likely will never be in the range of the enzo era cars.

 

I think the best these cars can hope for is to retain the current value and or slow depreciation.

 

I think this statement is VERY cool considering the 308 was introduced in the 70s.

Absolutely 100% accurate!! Ferraris are not really about rational thought in that sense...




PDG

 

Ferrari's are an interesting discussion regarding collectability. I'm hearing arguments above about production numbers and value and performance.

I argue that collectability and looks have a greater association than performance.

Of course coming from a 360.. I am biased. And FWIW the 430 has at least equal production numbers to the 360.

Why then does a 246 Dino have a six figure valuation where the 308 GT4 has a value in the Low 20's? Same basic platform? For that matter the 308 of late 70's vintage even consider the carb 308's have approx $50k asking values vs the six figure 246 Dino's with sub-par performance comparatively. The 246 has an iconic and timeless shape vs. the 70's wedge.

That's why the 360 is a "modern dino". The tail end of the 430 kills it for me.. it's "exotic" but not "beautiful". 360's and 430's might be collectable if enough are wrecked and attrition by improper maintenance takes its toll on the fleet. 360CS and maybe 16M are the only ones that stand a chance IMHO.

 

I see many people saying that the various limited edtion v8 will become collectible in the future... however I'm not really sure if I agree with all those views

Is a CS or a Scuderia really that much different from a standard 360 or 430? The average Joe probably wouldn't even be able to tell them apart.
Could a slightly stripped out versions of a 430 really become a highly valued collectors car while its more refined sibling will rot away unloved?
Personally I don't see it happening. I think it would be more likely that they will continue to command a small premium over the standard car like its happening now, but heir value will always remain linked to that of the base model.

 

I think collectability comes down to supply and demand. Scratch that, Demand. My 87 Ferrari Mondial with lower miles and in good condition is about the same price on the market as an equalalent Porsche 911 and my car has the same drivetrain as a 328 and comparably miniscule production. I think Porsche is more approachable similar to a 57 chevy or 69 Camaro. All cars with high production figures. I think more people aspire to a 911 as they are more likely to have had an experience with them. When the 360, 430 and 458 become maintenance hogs, who is going to want to own them? If the prices get low enough I have a 360 on my list, but not to collect, to drive.

1st comes market demand. Then and only after high demand if there are few available the price will rise. Production figures in absence of high demand is meaningless.

Finally, are these cars to collect or to be driven. A 246 looks fantastic sitting still. A 512bb with the boxer paint I could just look at all day. An early 308 too. I also think a Testarossa is crazy enough that they will end up in collections for shock and awe value. A 360, 430, I look at them and say, I could see driving one of those every day.

 

I could be very wrong but I believe the hand-built cars will ultimately soar over the "automated production line" cars.

One reason is just that they ARE "hand-made." Somebody literaly sweated over building that car.

And they are easy to fix and fab parts for when that ultimate time comes.




The next is that too many of the parts in today's are "Replace All." In some of the newer cars you CANNOT replace just a clutch as I have been told. You have to replace the ENTIRE transmission and that you can ONLY GET thru Ferrari. Fully experiencing the fabulous "Ferrari Tax" of course. Clutch change - $20K? Um - No Thanx. Part the car, Hank.

And Ferrari will ultimately tire of maintaining a replacement parts bin for them just like the 80's era cars. So some major end-items will just dry up. Need a new clutch in 15 years, just tow it to the junk yard.

Sad. But that is how I read it.

 

Yes

The customisation schemes Ferrari have now debase all "collector editions". Every car is unique. That means no car is special. And it means total classic buyer confusion in the future.

I think you are very right with this. Simple, fixable, beautiful, hand built cars.