The Massa Sucks Thread *OF COURSE THERE ARE SPOILERS*

LOL

 

Team orders? Which team exactly ordered Grosjean or Kimi to take Alonso out?

I am one of Massa's detractors, but I'm happy to give him credit for turning around a pathetic season where he has driven terribly until recently. It's a bit silly to pretend that because he's finally driven well in the last 4 races that he'd have been a title contender if not for Ferrari team orders!!

 

Massa has driven well LATELY, especially starting in September, and that's good for him.

Too bad the season started in March....if he had performed this way from race one then maybe he'd be in the fight for the WDC and Ferrari would have possibly won the WCC. is he Fred's btich currently? Yes, but only because he put himself in those circumstances.

He's done enough to keep his seat IMHO, but next year he needs to be battling at the sharp end of the grid from race 1 onward. He could play a HUGE part come Brazil....

 

It´s even sillyer to draw such conclusions from what i've said. In case someone has problems understanding my last posts i will try to clear it up. Massa had a lousy season, he drove like **** untill Monaco...i don´t know why, i simply know it was very, very bad. From then on he improved a lot but obviously he was still a long way back from Alonso who as been outstanding this year. What i said e it´s obvious for anyone with one good eye at least, is that starting from Spa, 8 races ago, Felipe made another step forward, and since then, he is driving very close to alonso, somethimes better, somethimes worse. Fact is, in Monza, Korea and now in Austin, Massa would have finished ahead of Alonso if not for team orders....it´s as simple as that, and anyone watching the races was able to see that. This however does not chgange the fact that his season sucked big time, and even if the team didi not help him most of the times, it was primarely his fault to be in this kind of position due to his horrible start of the season. IMO, the preaccident FElipe was faster than Alonso and had everything needed to be an world champion....i still doubt he will ever regain his ancient form but, if he does, i belive Ferrari won´t stop him from chalenging Alonso but, for that, he must start being competitive rigth from the first race and not only from half the season on.

 

Kimi didn´t tooke Alonso out, Alonso did it all by himself.

 

Exactly. Except when you look at it the other way, with Rosso blinders on.

 

Yes, thank God we have Massa in the team otherwise Alonso would totally suck.

...

 

I agree with your analysis, I disagree with your conclusions. Felipe took a long time to regain his form after the accident. No problem. Some drivers might not have made it back at all; Felipe did. It looks like it took the threat of losing his job to push him into that additional performance. By the time he started performing up to his old standards it was too late for him to win a championship, but Alonso was in good position and Felipe was told to be a team player, which he has done. This may actually have given him more motivation, and he may now be better than he was before the accident. Next year the two should start on even footing. If there is an Alonso bias at Ferrari, that's when we should be able to tell, not under present circumstances when they are trying to win a championship. Hopefully they will have a new wind tunnel next year and can put a top flight car into the hands of our drivers. If they do, Ferrari will win with Fernando and Felipe.

 

Or you can look at it with Fred hater binders on also.

 

Those work really well if you speak Portuguese.

 

If Massa is being treated badly at Ferrari we should all be so lucky.....over 4 years since he has won a race and paid 60 million in that time. In his 7 year Ferrari career he has 11 wins to his teamates 25. Brilliant 2008 without a doubt but just 5 victories in his other 6 seasons with the team. If Ferrari did not want a number one and wanted the drivers to duke it out my guess is they would never have signed him in the first place. I think he knows all this and plays ball accordingly. Getting the boot was not a good salary move for even Kimi and Barichello would never get a number one slot.

 

If you think that Massa's 1 year contract extension, granted after a mostly dismal season with only 2 acceptable races, would let him start on even footing with Alonso, you should give it more thought...

I would think it far more likely that Ferrari said "you don't deserve this, but since the guys we wanted signed elsewhere (Webber etc), we'll let you stay another year as long as you promise to be a good #2 to Fred". There's NO way Massa is allowed equal status.

 

Im sure they would both do better if they got a better car. I think we should kidnap Adrain Newey and deliver him to maranello. Whats a matter doesn't he like Italian food????????
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I´m not sure whre that came from or to whom it´s directed but in my case i can tell you that i have no special simpathy for Brazilians over any one else....in fact, i hated Piquet and Senna, neve liked barrichelo, and Massa was the first i ever really liked. Same thing about spanish, it´s true That since small ages we get some resentment about spain...(after all, they tryed to conquer us for a few centuryes and the years they actually rulled over here where not our favourite ones, so historicaly there as been a lot of rivalry...but truth is both our countryes have great relationship, and i can tell you that in some parts of Spain (galicia) theyr language is more similar to portuguese than spanish. I don´t favour a driver over the other for his nationality, Gilles was canadian, Alesi was French-italian, Berger an austrian, Albioreto Italian, KImi and Rosberg from finland...and i liked them all.....

 

He is not a fan of Machiavelli.

 

Equal footing is a broad term. Let me be more specific. If at the first race next year Massa is leading Alonso at the end of the race, I do not believe that Ferrari will ask him to relinquish his position, nor stall him in the pits. In other words, if Felipe can outrace Fernando next year before championship standings become a factor in team decisions, Felipe will get his chance.

 

Exacly, no one is going to tell him to slow down if he proves faster than Alonso from the start...same way they didn´t with Kimi.

 

Good point. The problem seems to be that when the other driver gets ahead, they know Massa will probably follow team-orders better than the other guy, so they don't let him catch up.

I sometimes wonder what some of his previous season results would have been if not for things like that.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Sure, like in Austria 2002? When Schumacher had a huge lead already in the WDC, and they let Rubens have his chance!

Sorry, Ferrari has a history which suggests that your view is just wishful thinking. I would still suggest that from the very first 2013 practice session, Massa's job will be to support Alonso, and that that was even a requirement for him to get the new 1 year contract.

 

Massa did deserve the extension because for most of the year, it was not Massa that was the problem, the car never suited him until lately, and the changes have done wonders for both Massa and Alonso. If you think that Michael Schumacher suddenly lost his ability, then as Andreas stated, I have a bridge to sell you. There is more to racing then just jumping in a car and winning. Chassis/tire combination, programing of gears, computers, aerodynamics, so much to consider. MS was never given a car this year that suited his style. I am curious if Mercedes will give Rosberg or Hamilton the edge when the season starts.

The 2012 Ferrari was for the most part tuned for Alonso, although not very well even for him for if it were, he would not be fighting for the WDC, he would have had it won many races ago.

Massa did not just suddenly return to form, the car finally came to Massa.

 

More than likely correct.
And sensible. You could spot Phil two wins and the smart money would still be on Alonso.

 

I see no relevance between Austria 2002 and what we are discussing here. Ferrari has shown no favoritism when it comes to winning championships. Just look at how they shunted Michael out when he had a lackadasical season. Kimi was the next superman and as soon as they became unhappy with him, he was gone. If Felipe outperforms Fernando from the beginning of a season, he's the new numero uno.

 

And if I had wings, I could fly.

 

Like an ostrich or a chicken? or a dodo? or a...?