512TR brakes

Anyone can tip us about maintenance of the 512TR brakes ?

Working perfect still but it was all constructed 20 years ago .... so why not do that this winter ?

It consists of 16 pistons and rubbers ...

Who has numers or non-oem tips about the ATE / Teeves parts ?
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Really NO ONE here who has don the brakes ... ?

 

Trying again folks .... who has answers / help ?

 

Greetings, hope all is well. Try giro disc for the rebuild kits and I would use a nice porterfeld brake pad. The rebuild is easy. Take your time and clean carefully. Try not to score the piston or piston bore. I did mine and they came out perfect. The only challenge is if there is a frozen piston. Compressed air is the best way to extract the pistons. Just make a nice cushion for when they pop out and more importantly cover so the brake fluid does not spatter all over the place. Rebuild kits cost about $35.00 a piece. You'll need four. Hope this info helps.


R

 

don't send them out to one of those rebuild services ...you'll get a set back, but they won't be your original cores ...been there, done that, and got some calipers back (that were rebuilt) but looked like crap, painted removed, beat up & marked

have you started by looking for a complete rebuild kit, like from ricambi, etc?? that makes life a LOT easier ...when i rebuilt my jag xjs front calipers, the kit i got had new pistons & everything ....worked out great!

 

Ate sells the kit as well. Almost forgot. Do not split the caliper unless you know for sure you have the new o seals to reassemble.

R

 

Brembo used to sell an F50 upgrade kit that I have on mine and they work spectacularly

Not sure it they are still available

The original brakes were built by a co called Octogon

 

O-rings oeppppps ... I think I don't need to split them ... Any number or link to such a ATE set for 512TR Calipers please ?

I really believe that a 25 - 25 years old car needs such an update on the calipers ... was never done up till now I presume

Any one with pics of all that good work ?

(We have another thread also .... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283096)

They are also called: Genuine Teves Ferrari 512tr Front Brake Calipers. Ferrari Part # 142479/142090

 

I would reconsider. You'll be surprised how much dirt and rust is going to be in the piston bore. The best way to clean up and prep for new seals is to split them. If not splitting I wouldn't waste the time in replacing the seals. The groove that the large seal slips in is tedious to clean up. Plus once your re-seating the pistons it would be difficult to press them in straight. When they are split you have access out the ass my brother. Hope which ever way you go that is goes smoothly.

R

 

Thanx Rob, I must wait till the winterstop in a few months tme from now ... and will post my story here with lots of photo's !

 

The winterstop has arrived !

Next weekend I will take the 4 calipers off ....

 

Snow already?

 

No .... but the 512TR is now in its winter garage .... will put her on wooden blocks and get the wheels off...

Then unscrew the 4 calipers ... and also will inspect the 4 flex rubber hoses / pipes ( # 3 + 22 )because I believe it also is time now to replace them after 20 years of service !

Next decision is the colour after sanding the calipers ... everybody has the OEM black; I may consider F red ....

Still looking for info on the ATE refurbishing set numbers ..... !!!

PLEASE HELP !!!
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Found a better scheme in the WSM (of course .....!!) ... but no discription of refurbishing the calipers (F wants you to go to a F shop I presume ) ....

It also shows the connection between brakepads (15), brakebooster/oil level (10), relay (2), fuse (# 22) and red warning light (12)!

Seems that a MINUS signal triggers that warning light 1: worn brakepad, low oillevel. Warning light 2 is activated by the handbrake.

Any more to add/tell ? Steve ... ?

And WHO helps me with the numbers or name of these ATE refurbishing sets (I only have found this photo of front pads somewhere ...) ?

Are they the same as Jaguar or BMW (which type ?) ...
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I'd go yellow, they really stand out. Red would blend in.

 

No, you've got the right understanding Mel. Interesting to note that, on both this figure and the corresponding (but somewhat different) figure for the TR, they mangled the wiring connections to the rear brake light bulbs -- (wrongly) showing them in series while they are actually wired in parallel.

One interesting difference is that, on US TR, the brake failure warning light comes "on" during starter motor cranking (just to let the Driver know that the wiring and bulb are OK); whereas, on euro TR, this feature is not included. In the 512TR OMs, they indicate that both the US and euro 512TR have this feature. (Rather than inflicting pain on myself by looking at the 512TR schematics ) Can you confirm, Mel, that the brake failure warning light on your euro 512TR does illuminate during starter motor cranking? TIA.

 

It does Steve ....

My trouble is that after starting all is well during the drive ... and when I leave for a second go, my red light suddenly stays on ....

Allways as a second trip (f.i. after refueling ...) .... anoying ! And we are not able to find it ... (even now the brakepads are disconnected ...)

 

As is often the case, I don't understand what you are asking for Mel. In post #4 Robbie provide maintenance tips and a source for both the caliper rebuild kits and pads. In post #5 JeremyJon suggested checking with the major parts suppliers (e.g. Ricambi). In post#8 you decided not to split the calipers (as Robbie recommended). You keep asking for ATE refurbishing kits? What more do you need?

A quick search on the internet shows several possible sources:
(1) T Rutlands is having a Nov. special on rebuild kits. Prices are good and free shipping (though likely not to Netherlands , (2) The second photo is rebuild kit prices from Ialian Car Parts, and (3) the last is front 512TR pads from AW Imported Auto, I'm sure they have rears as well (didn't photograph). There are many other sources like Maranello and Eurospares on your side of the globe, I'm sure they would be happy to help if you gave them a call.

If you have rebuilt calipers before, these are no different than just about any others. Clean the parts well before and after disassembly. Split the calipers. Apply compressed air (low pressure, ask me how I know ) at the removed brake line connections to press out the pistons. Clean the bores and the pistons very thoroughly. Paint calipers. Install new seals, lube with new clean brake fluid before pressing in the pistons (non-synthetic fluid will ruin most paint so be careful). Bolt calipers back together, install pads, hydraulic lines. If pad backings are metallic, use a brake anti-squeal compound. If coated with teflon not required. Install and bleed. That's obviously over-simplified but you should get the idea.

If you choose to split the calipers, I don't see any O-rings listed in the 512TR SPC and I doubt if they come in the rebuild kits...

...On the TR, however, there are two spacers and four "seal ring on spacers" (per caliper, between the caliper halves). Just looking at the 512TR SPC and your photos in post#1 it appears to me the 512TR caliper castings eliminated the need for the spacers and their associated sealing rings, so I would guess they aren't required. Even more likely since your design has a hydraulic line connecting both capiper housings. That said I'm not a 512TR guy so I suggest you contact your F dealer to further research or just roll the dice, open them up and see what you have. BTW you can source just about any size generic o-ring on the net.

Here's your opportunity to post a detailed description of your efforts with lots of photos for future 512 owners--good luck with the rebuild.
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OK, I had a look at your 512TR schematic, and there are 4 components that can turn "on" the brake warning light "e":

07003 -- Based on the schematic symbol, I think this is the liquid level switch in the master cylinder reservoir

07015 -- Based on the schematic symbol, I think this is one of the brake pad sensors

07016 -- Based on the schematic symbol, I think this is the other brake pad sensor

06625 -- Based on the schematic symbol, this is some sort of complex relay/ECU -- my guess would be that this is the bad component. If you have the brake pad sensors disconnected, and have disconnected the level switch on the master cylinder reservoir, but still have the problem then almost certainly 06625 is the trouble. Unfortunately, none of these item numbers are shown on page L32 -- so, if you have a complete 512TR WSM, see if you can find if/where these item numbers are described.

After looking at the 512TR SPC (and knowing that on TR a similar "buzzer/ECU" controls the brake warning light), I would guess that this 06625 might be item 13 here:

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=1055

The best test would be to unplug 06625 and see if the trouble goes away (but the warning light will also not work during starter motor cranking with 06625 unplugged) so that's the important component to identify.

 

Thanx Steve !!!! That is a very good tip: I will disconnect the buzzer soon ... and hope this is it !

What does this buzzer; I mean, where was it put in for .... ?

As to the remarks of Tim: I definively will open these calipers , it's the only way to do things right.

I am looking for simple numbers of complete refurbishing sets for these ATE calipers ... but for 512TR I still don't have them to get these parts over here in Europe ...

And indeed the calipers of the TR are very different from the 512TR/M ....

This info is very handy / useful: Front Brake Pads with Sensors (with Teves calipers) partnr 70000766 ...! Now the clips and pins......

Do they really mean the 4 flex rubber hoses / pipes ( # 3 + 22 ) for that price ? Brake caliper hose, front and rear #fr116373 $ 117,50 each ?

Should be no more than $ 20 each imo.....

Of course I wil make a good report and lots of photo's for all 512TR/M guys here (maybe for the Sticky ...) .... !!!

 

Both looks strange and will be a dismatch on such a car.

Mel, in case you definitely want to have something different, you´d better go for the same colour like your rims.

I´d stick to the OEM matt black - or maybe change to crinkle paint.

 

Another "1" of my pet peeves!!!....Why can't the rebuild kits have the DAMN "O" rings!!!!!....what could the "REAL" cost of the O rings be??!!...ten cents apiece....to do the job properly the calipers NEED to be split, thus the O rings are mandatory.....I HATE wasting my valuable time sourcing a ten cent part!!!!....Rant Over!!!.....Mark

 

+ 1 Mark ! Same with almost all other F parts ... but I will try to find other factory parts that are the same ...

Yes, maybe grigo will do on the calipers Sebastian ... more people advised that to me. Although red still attracts me a lot ...

At least it shows that these calipers were off (and refurbished) ...

 

On a US TR, this component is called "Buzzer for unfastened seat belt" in the wiring diagram and "Seat belts control unit for US" in the SPC (and is shown with an ITALAMEC label).

Obviously, from the names it has some seat belt function (it has many other input signals from the door switches and the key-in-place switch, and output signals that go to the seatbelt ECUs), but it also seems to take +12V from the key Pos III (start) on one terminal and turns that into ground on another terminal to turn on the brake warning light during starter motor cranking. My guess would be that F used this feature as a sort of happy accident to run the brake warning light test, and other manufacturers might use this feature to inhibit starting if the unit isn't happy with the other seatbelt system input signals.

A much better English name for this component would be "seatbelt ECU control unit with built-in buzzer"; unfortunately, in your 512TR SPC, this just got shortened to "buzzer". I could be completely wrong about this -- if that "buzzer" on your 512TR only has 2 wires/terminals, then it's just a buzzer; however, if it has 6~8 wires/terminals, then it is more than just a simple buzzer.

 

Thanx again Steve ! One day I will open up the non-driver side and have a look ...

Had a good go this afternoon ....

Took off all calipers. Took me 3 hours and a lot of worry too.....

Obvious, this car is now 20 years of age but why does the "skin" of the allow brakepipes simply go, peel off now ? Age ?

And many bolts to loosen brakepipes were not in the very best shape; had to use a vise-grip on half of them ...

I am very happy that I started renewing the brakesystem; will not only do the calipers bit also the firts piese and te rubber hoses.

Was not aware that F use shimms for mounting the calipes ...now I know ... (in my "normal" car it's not).

We need to find non-OEM rubber hoses; can't be that difficult; anubody has info / data for these parts please ? F.I. their length ?

Tools needed: open spanner 11mm and a vise-grip ... 19 mm spanner fot unsrewing the calipers.

I made 4 times a "stop" for the brakefluid and those proved very usefull ...

Be very carefull with lifting the back of the Testarossa as sometimes the rear window cracks .. I used my special tool ...of course !

Some (! many) pics to follow....
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