In-period vs. Non-period Rebodies | Page 3 | FerrariChat

In-period vs. Non-period Rebodies

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012.

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What is the cut-off for rebodied cars discussed in this forum?

  1. Absolutely no discussion here of cars without original coachwork or coachwork that appears as origin

  2. Only allow discussion of factory-sanctioned rebodies

  3. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 3 years of construction

  4. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 5 years of construction

  5. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 10 years of construction

  6. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied prior to 1980

  7. Allow discussion of all rebodied cars that are not replicas or "recreations" of other models

  8. Other (please explain below)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
  2. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    No more categories please it's bad enough having two !

    Vadim showed great taste in women as well as his cars.

    Bardot, Annette Strøyberg, Jane Fonda, and Catherine Deneuve !!

    He most likely went to 55 and beach for a lie down
     
  3. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,798
    Sarasota, Fl.
    Full Name:
    Stan
    I have no problem whatsoever calling a car a fake. But to say the car is faking isn't technically correct and so it is not proper and gentlemanly if done so to be defamitory.

    The poor car is most certainly mindless and thus incapable of performing such a feat.

    To say that their owner is faking is to say that their intent is known to you which is improbable.

    I say live and let live.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #54 miurasv, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
    Yes, Vadim showed great taste in women and cars. However, it was his ability to "achieve them" that was the infinitely greater thing.
     
  5. 65 f.i.

    65 f.i. Karting

    Feb 10, 2008
    187
    Santa Barbara, Ca.
    Full Name:
    Martin
    This entire discussion seems silly to me. A Ferrari is a Ferrari regardless of the model it started out as. Why not discuss replicas that are seemingly correct. At the very least, if there is interest in a particular car (especially if the price is approaching six figures) then it would be good to know of the history of that car.
     
  6. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    #56 PAUL BABER, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    Has anyone else noticed that various auction houses no longer refer to Replicas and Recreations but now describe the cars as EVOCATIONS.........What exactly is an Evocation ?
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,690
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    An obfuscation.
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Could the James Cagney and the Boano connection/story have started here?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQ8ePrNYtU[/ame]
     
  10. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    Definitely reaching for the dictionary.......
     
  11. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Marcel Massini on 0627 GT, James Cagney, and "in-period" rebody:
     
  12. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    This is very interesting and I'm sure as it comes from Marcel, its true. I was told of the Cagney connection by the owner I was selling it for and passed this on to any interested buyer. Thus perpetuating the story.........Whatever its history may have been, it was / is a wonderful car.
     
  13. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    Steve.........I think you may be right. Maybe the car in the film is 0627 and the story started as ...the car in the Cagney film but through the years became James Cagney's car......Well done for finding this.
     
  14. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    #64 El Wayne, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
    We've been around and around with this one and have never been able to identify the Boano in that film.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183118
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231568
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276931
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184827
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183644
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183809
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259330
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183784

     
  15. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    12,143
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Onno
    #65 JazzyO, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Consider the case of 250 Europa 0421GT.

    This car was originally purchased by the father of famous Dutch Ferrari collectors HK and NK. It was sold to England and the brothers tried to buy it back in the '80ies but narrowly lost out to Lord Brockett. In the infamous story, this individual cut up 4 Ferraris and buried the remains on his property to claim insurance money. 0421GT was one of them. After acquiring the remains (chassis, incomplete engine, rear axle and gearbox, all very rusty) at auction in 1996, NK set about recreating the car to its original specification - Hietbrink handcrafted a body using 0363GT as a template, Piet Roelofs did the engineering work, Fabio Calligaris the paintwork based on Jacques Swaters' confirmation of original paint codes.

    In my view, though this car is probably only 10 - 20% original and a non-period rebody, it deserves to be discussed in this section as the owners have set about recreating the original car as far as is humanly possible. The history of car and the process of the rebody is fully documented in a fascinating little book that was published after the restoration.

    The car is now, as far as it is possible to be, the same as it left the factory. A commendable and very expensive effort. So whilst it is not original, it is still 250 Europa 0421GT.


    Onno
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    950
    Fully agree with you. This is the same identity that the car which left the factory, or body shop. Whether it was put in pieces, burnt racing, or severally damaged or even rebodied for whatever purposes then put back into its original condition , this is THE car it pretends to be.
    Of course when no original piece remain, specially the chassis, this is another problem..recreating a car that do not exist anymore should be off limits. Of course this will always the question of the limit. Using a dormant chassis might be acceptable,,,but a dormant engine and drive train, or just the body to resurrect a car, not acceptable ( specially
    As we may end up with 2 cars, one clone and one " legitimate").
     
  17. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    #67 Enigma Racing, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dear Onno

    Thanks. I remember this car when Charlie Brocket owned it and it was horrible. Red, very shiny and a nasty plastic Scuderia Ferrari sticker. Bearing in mind other cars in his collection, I would not be surprised if it was only "10-20% original" when he owned it.

    The Dutch owner should be congratulated on doing such a great restoration and I agree it is worthy of discussion here.

    Apart from the Europa he also dismantled a 340 America Vignale Spyder (0138AM) and a 195 Sport (0123S). What happened to them ?

    Kim
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,627
    0138AM was a cabriolet that first got "charlied" all over (he tried to make it look like a hot rod racing car in true 1980's tradition...) then scrapped. It was restored with a new spider body that looks like 0140A Vignale.

    0123S was a project car, some people say almost totally consumed by rust. I understand that what was left after Charlie is slowly being reconstructed/restored.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  19. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    #69 Enigma Racing, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
    Thanks Kare

    Found details of a very shiny 0138A online. Interesting the car was sold fitted with a PF Coupe engine from 1241GT rather than the original engine still in their possession

    http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/858-Ferrari-340%20America%20Spyder%20by%20Vignale-V12
     
  20. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    12,143
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Onno
    #70 JazzyO, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For completion's sake, a pic of 0421GT last September on the Prince Bernhard Memorial drive. What a stunning car. She won the Concours D'Elegance, although that was a fairly informal affair it has to be said.


    Onno

    Picture by Jan Sanderman.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,798
    Sarasota, Fl.
    Full Name:
    Stan
    A beautiful car for sure.

    At least it doesn't think it's something that it's not ????????????


    It is what it is. :)
     
  22. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    Onno, do you have contact info for Mr. Calligaris? Feel free to PM to me, if you like.

    thanks,
    B
     
  23. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
    4,300
    Cape Town, South Afr
    Full Name:
    Jack Verschuur
    Onno,

    Your story made me think; in order to avoid a painful classification, maybe it would be better to refer to the work done as a repair/restoration rather than a re-body. In the vein of the discussion at hand, isn't re-body used to describe a process where one body-style is replaced by another?

    Beautiful automobile, but one might expect that from either of the brothers.
     
  24. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    1,062
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber
    Did you know that CB is intending to publish a book about his collection ? I was asked to research the cars.......Ironic really as I was employed by the insurers to value the collection when the fraud was first discovered........ Cant wait to see the title of the book
     
  25. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Paul

    Liz Pipers writing a book on Pipes life entitled "There are Ferraris at the bottom of my Garden" maybe Charlie should do the same !

    Good to catch up the other day

    Kim
     

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