Issues with FabSpeed muffler/tips on a 360

Why you may want to reconsider buying FabSpeed products....

About a year ago, I purchased the FabSpeed muffler and tips thru Vivid Racing. Upon opening the box, it appeared to be nicely polished and pretty. I did the install on my 2001 360 coupe along with Agency Power headers (Jet Hot coated) and Kinetix high flow CATS. The headers had their own issue where their fabricator forgot to drill the main port for the SAI. Luckily I caught that before installation. Everything else went in fine and sounds great.

A couple of days ago, I was getting some annoying resonance out the back, especially at 3,300 rpm. I dove in looking at what mile be lose, working too close to something, or what. One of the first things I wanted to do was tighten the bolts that hold the tips to the muffler flange. I can't believe that all of the hardware (bolts, washers, and nuts) are rusted! What appears to be stainless steel pipes, flanges, etc... held together with steel, or cheaply plated steel hardware. Shame!!!

I wiggled, kicked, and poked and I was getting a metallic ring from the right side tip. It seems that the fabricator put a couple of 'small' tack welds where the two tips come close together. Of course the were fractured and would hit together. The left side tips were even closer together and had even small tack welds. That side did not seem to make any noise. Given the level of vibration, heat and harmonics, I am appalled at this low level of quality. Now it appears that I will have to remove the rear bumper 'again' and hope the rusted nuts come off so I can do a better job of welding the tip supports so that they or some other part of the muffler does not crack. There is at least one post where the pipes going into the muffler tore off. If you have the FabSpeed muffler, you may want to have all of the mounting hardware checked for tightness from time to time. Also maybe replace the crappy hardware for something better.

I don't know where they have the design and fabrication done, but there is definite lack there. If this is truly 'Made In The USA', then SHAME ON THE FABRICATOR and the Company sell it!!!!!!!!

I should not have to spend my time fixing what was not a cheap purchase!!!!!

And don't even get me started on all of the Cheap Chinese Crap that a lot of stores sell here :-( Bring jobs and quality back to the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Pics please

 

George,

Have you called Fabspeed about the issue yet??

I hope all is well for you and Carola this holiday season!!

 

Robert,
Thanks for the Holiday Wishes. Hope the same for you.

I will be calling FabSpeed on this issue and will post pix. Today I dug in deeper and found that the muffler shield also cut into and thru the aluminum cover that goes over the engine cover latch (also holds the 'open lid' sensor). With the muffler shield removed, I was still getting a rattle at 3,200 rpm. My temp fix was to (of all things) use a small wad of duct tape jammed in between the muffler tips where the outer most tack weld was. This got rid of the rattle!!!!

I have not looked into what FabSpeed's warranty is, especially after a year from purchase.

Most likely I will just fix it myself. I know what the problem is, I have a nice TIG welder and do it 'right'. Also use quality stainless hardware to replace the rusted crap.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving you all-

 

lol!

I have a Fabspeed exhaust on my 911 and a) its a great product, bolt on, great fit, great quality and b) the guys at Fabspeed were great to work with.

sorry for your troubles but I'm sure they'll make you happy if you give them a chance...

 

I'll be the first one to say I don't like their customer service.....but you really need to give them a chance to fix first.

 

Im really concerned about their products. From my research their headers are almost always associated with CEL light. Of course this is associated with precats elimination but still there are major complains here...

 

I don't think the headers cause a CEL. It's the cats which usually cause a CEL, especially if you combine the cats and headers.

FWIW, I have Fabspeed headers and cats and was getting the CEL even with the Fabspeed extenders. I added the bigdaddies mini-cat to the extenders and have not thrown a CEL or had any warning codes over 200 miles.

 

I am sorry that you are having this problem. Your Fabspeed muffler does come with a lifetime warranty and we would be more than happy to help resolve the problem. However, it was said by others in this thread (and I agree), it would have been much preferred to have been given the opportunity to do so before you posted your shaming, negative comments.

Please call or email me directly to discuss how we can help you fix the rattle you are getting. I understand that you may be willing to fix it yourself, but we would like to understand what the problem is and how to ensure that it won't happen to others.

Regarding the hardware, we use German-made Wurth hardware for all of our applications. The bolts and washers are zinc-plated steel, while the nuts are copper-plated steel. Using stainless hardware within an exhaust application would lead to seizing within the first few heat cycles. Even though they have changed color, they should still be strong and be able to be removed without breaking. We see brand new cars from Ferrari, Porsche, etc with rusted exhaust bolts. I can assist in getting you new hardware if you want (although it will be the same as what came with our system when new).

Thanks,

Jeff

 

All this over some year old rusty exhaust bolts?

You've got to be kidding me....

Jeff makes a very good point too, as to why it would NOT be good to use stainless hardware. Similar metals fuse together. OP I think you jumped the gun on this issue a little bit

 

I have Exottica tips and I think they are the source of an annoying vibration I hear around the same RPM. I'm going to try some shims.

Anyone else have this problem and where can I get some shims?

 

Alright guys.... here are the pix along with another issue.

First, since the muffler and tips are stainless steel, the hardware should also be stainless so as not to have galvanic corrosion.

Second, the tack welds that are to prevent the tips from banging together should have been much larger/stronger given the harsh environment (heat cycle, vibration, harmonics).

Third, the 'shield' that mounts over the muffler should have a notch at the rear lower edge to give adequate clearance between the engine latch cover and cover bracket. The notch would not be noticed as it would be low.

Fourth, I am debating to make new brackets to replace the left and right uprights (the brackets with '360' cut through them). All of the laser cut corners are sharp. This is exactly the ideal feature to propagate cracks. Also the bent tabs are rather sharp (small bend radii) and no bend reliefs to prevent the start of cracks. There is a F-Chat post that has pix of this very issue!

These are no small isolated issues, but flawed design. The tiny tack welds might be a QC issue, but that is no excuse as there should be two metal straps about .125" thick and 3/8" wide joining the tips instead of tack welds. Cost more, you bet, but they would last as long as the welding is done properly.

I have been designing sheet metal enclosures and structures for Naval surface ships, aircraft and submarines for over thirty-five years. I have seen what it takes to survive shock and vibration where failure is not an option. The exhaust system is a very demanding environment.

Pix... The rust, broken miniscule tack weld and the latch cover cut through by the muffler shield. The pix with the drywall screw is my temp fix to stop the rattle at 3200 rpm. The little nub of weld adjacent to the screw is where I filed the weld down. The vibration is so severe, the tips still managed to hit together. The screw worked as I had a couple of car events where I did not need the rattle.

The thought of sending the muffler and tips back to FabSpeed... No, not an option!!!
I will do the fixes myself because I will get it done right and won't be disappointed. Not happy that I have to pull the muffler again and buy a new latch cover.

Those who have The FabSpeed products, all I can say is 'Good Luck to You'.
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An quality anti-seze product would take care of that issue!!!

 

"Second, the tack welds that are to prevent the tips from banging together should have been much larger/stronger given the harsh environment (heat cycle, vibration, harmonics)."

I dealt with this issue with my FabSpeed tips maybe 500 miles in from install....local shop redid both tips with a proper/larger weld, never called FabSpeed on them. Overall my local Ferrari mechanic is very disappointed with FabSpeeds build quality & this is not the first negative post I've come across about them here on FCHAT.

I was about to pull the trigger on the 360 exhaust they make but I never did.

 

From your pictures, the muffler looks to have been fitted WAY too far back in the bay, it should have been pushed further onto the cats. You then wouldn't have had an issue with the latch cover.

 

That was also my first thought on seeing those last two pictures. Personally, I like to loosen the cats where they join to the manifolds when putting a rear box on - that way the whole system can be aligned properly before tightening up the joints.

 

At this level of product and application, the MO is "Get it right the first time." They didn't. It's over.

 

Well the muffler 'was' pushed in as far as the joints would allow and there 'was' space between the muffler and the latch cover/and bracket. It seems that the muffler shield came back around too far. However when the shield went on I could not see how close it got because that point is so low.

The person/persons who designed the upright brackets do not understand proper sheet metal fabrication practice.

I stand by all of my opinions on this product.

 

+1.

To the OP, spend a little more money and buy a better product, Fabspeed quality is just so so, always has been. I would not put any Fabspeed items on my Ferrari.

 

At this point, I will upgrade (fix) what I have for now. I just ordered a new bonnet latch cover (Ricambi $106.42 shipping included) and a piece of sheet 304 SS (Online Metals $$51.16 shipping included). I have a bunch of SS socket head screws, washers, locking nuts.

My design that will not have stress points (sharp corners and lack of bend radii) and will last. Also I will weld in straps to join the tips in two places on each pair.

This 'should' put an end to this mess.

Buyers Beware of crappy products!!!!!!

 

I thought it's accepted to not use stainless with stainless on exhaust systems due to seizing after heat cycling.

Is that not so?

 

That would be true unless you apply anti-seze compound. That will prevent galling, etc...
Do a Google search, etc, check the manufactures product info...

 

I will post pix as my fixes for this design failure progresses. I will pull the muffler/tips on Monday, part and sheet metal material should be received later in the week.