Best direction for a purchase

I have been lusting for a Ferrari for years. Recently, my wife and I offered on a 330GTC only to have the price raised above the original offering price (car since sold); we offered on a 365 GTC in need of too much and didn't get that either (good we missed this one); we offered on the number 1 365 GTC with a wrong engine (another good miss); we have driven a 430 then a 458 followed by a new California and finally a 599. The objective is to end up with a reasonably dependable car that does not require pulling the engine for service. It would be nice to see retention of value and even nicer to see the value go up but we want to be able to drive the car without constant paranoia about too many miles or mechanical/electrical failures. I considered a Boxer, a 355, 550, 575, 612, and a Daytona but it seems the more we look the more confusing it becomes.
So, the question remains for value, long term appreciation, dependablity, and joy of driving (more sporty than cruiser) what would be the recommendation from you experts?

 

It really depends on how you plan to use the car. The 612 is a great GT car, long rides would be silky smooth with all the performance you could possibly want. The 355, 360, 430, 458 are all great cars but give more of a sports car feel and ride. The 599 is similar to an American muscle car but obviously a lot more on the performance and style side. The California is a great front engine sports car with the convertible top. Sometimes with a Ferrari you have to simply buy what you think best fits your desire at the time, drive it for a couple of years then trade it for another. These cars are so fantastic you'll want to have one of each. For me the 458 is the best choice. I have a 2013 coupe optioned just the way I want it and the car has exceeded my wildest expectations. Your decision comes down to this, a sports car or a gran touring car. With either you can't go wrong!

 

There are no Ferraris that don't need engine out service, are reliable, appreciate in value, are a joy to drive, that are impervious to mileage effecting worth. (did I miss any criteria?)

If you find that unicorn let us know.

But you can likely get most of them. Just not all.

 

IMHO, the best chance for appreciation over the next 10 years time is probably the Boxer (512 BBi for example).
I've never owned one but my understanding is it does require an engine-out service though.
Not sure, but I think nice ones sell in the $125k - $150k range.

Another good choice is a 550. More modern. Reliable.
Timing belts are changed through removable front engine covers.
Nice ones are in the $75k - $80k range.
They might go up a little in value over the next 10 years, but not much (they made too many of them).

If you could take your criteria and sort them in highest priority order, I think that would help people with what model to recommend.
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I guess I am all-over-the-map to some degree. I would like to cover my bases (sporty, as dependable as can be expected and comfortable). No unicorns but would like to learn from the experiences of those in-the-know.

 

You seemed to have checked out many models over a wide spread of eras and types. What model moves you?

The Testrossa and the 355 are probably the most expensive to maintain.

-F

 

Here's the ones I like 330/365 GTC, 458 coupe, 599, 599 GTO. The GTO is awesome but a little pricey. I also wonder how well it will fare over the next decade.

 

Great, it's good to know what interest you in order to narrow things down.

The newer cars on your list will depreciate. They just will and you have to accept that.

Where the 599 GTO will go is up for debate but it will probably drop a little (I think it already has) but not as much as the 458 or 599. It will likely settle in a spot whereas the 599 and eventually the 458 will continue to drop to, I don't know, maybe where the other newish models (360, 550, 430) have dropped to, around the $100,000 mark. (Yes I know, some models are above that, some below, just using round numbers.)

The 360 Challenge Stradale and 430 Scuderia are "limited" edition versions that will not drop in value as much and will likely settle in a spot for a while. Those models provide a more raw experience that may or may not suit you.

The vintage models (330 for example) will continue to increase in value. They represent something that won't and can't be made again by Ferrari, a raw, basic, old world experience that takes you back to a simpler time. These older models can be reliable but parts and experienced labor can cost a lot of money. And the experience is more vintage. That can be good or bad depending on your disposition.

Given that you are new to the Ferrari experience (right?) and seem to like the performance, sport models, I would suggest a F430 or a used 458 (already has the first wave of depreciation).

If you are more of a bigger GT kind of guy, the 599 or even 550/575 would be good choices.

The 599 GTO is kind of the best of both worlds wrapped up into one car. If you have the means, I suggest picking one up.

Actually, seriously, a 599 GTO would be a great car to have and would likely not be difficult to sell if it didn't suit you down the line.

Lastly, none of the models listed above are maintenance hogs or unreliable. They each have their issues but they are pretty minor as far as I know.

Happy hunting.

-F

 

430 is the first chain driven car and will require much less in terms of maintenance *IMO*

Your looking at $600 a year until you need to replace a clutch (that year will be $2K - $2.5K). Most need the clutch replaced in the 20K mile range, give or take 2-3K miles. (YMMV)

If you search around hard enough you should be able to get one sub $120 with 7K-15K miles on it.

 

Furman, Thank you for your input. It does seem the GTO may be a good option. I have read the entries regarding 599 GTO pricing. It seems there was a GTO in Germany priced at 299k Euros and then some priced domestically between 425k and 528k. I could care less if the car has 500 miles or 5000 miles but condition must be prestine. I noticed your wanted cars are either a 288 GTO or a 599 GTO. Have you researched the current and real numbers on these cars? What conclusions have you or anyone else reading this thread come to regarding hard numbers? Is there a significant difference in a Euro model? Would it may sense to run the miles up to 7500 and then attempt an import to the U.S.?

Regarding new to Ferrari: Yes, I am. My wife use to drive her father's 330 GT when she was in her teens but other than a few test drives, not anything current for either of us.

 

Start driving them. The treats you have to look forward to. Enjoy.

 

LOL, I'm dreaming, so no, I haven't done any research.

Importing a Euro 599 GTO is not a good option. You will have more luck finding a US car in the US. The reason it's so hard to find good comps on 599 GTO is that there are so few for sale at any given time.

I suggest hanging around the 599 section and see if one comes up for sale. Scroll through a few pages to read the past 599 GTO "for sale" or "looking for a GTO" or "599 GTO pricing" threads. The information will be relevant to your search.

If you're serious, you might want to start a thread in that section stating you are looking for a 599 GTO and maybe state what color you are looking for. I would bet all 599 GTO will be pristine.

The sponsor CNC Motors seems to get them every now and the then. The Auto Gallery in Calabassas I think has sold one or two over the last couple of years. I suggest going through the 599 section and directing specific 599/599 GTO questions there.

-F

 

Martin. Continue your research. My constant advice: drive these cars! Find one that speaks to you. Get the best conditioned/serviced example you can afford. Get a PPI by a respected mechanic and find a trustworthy service provider. And then enjoy it. Things are going to break, things will need to be maintained, market prices will rise, fall, or stay about the same, but relish the opportunity to own a car that you are crazy about. It's that simple.

 

Great advice. Drive them and then decide and don't worry about the wear and tear. Things break, fix them, enjoy them.

 

Find one you like and buy it.

There will always be a "better car" out there, but time waits for no one.

You can always sell it and buy a different model.

Carpe diem

 

It seems like a good idea to pick a time period for what you want, and then choose the best model from that time period. The best part about owning a Ferrari is driving it and there is a world of difference driving-wise between a vintage model and a modern one. Both are great, but completely different experiences, so probably would be good to figure out which time period is right for you.

Vintage cars can be very reliable once they are sorted because they are much simpler than the modern cars and they have timing chains rather than belts. The problem is that a lot of vintage cars aren't sorted and the issues can be subtle and hard to detect until you've lived with it (bought it).

Timing belts are the main ongoing maintenance issue and are present on most modern models prior to the 430. The 355 has some problem areas that probably wouldn't make it a great match given your maintenance concerns. The 550 seems like a good match based upon your criteria (it has timing belts, but they are easily accessible) although it is less sporty than the mid-engine cars. I think new 458's have 7 year maintenance included, so that is your best bet for care-free ownership.

It seems like you will get better and more specific advice if you can narrow down to a time period and budget range.

 

You have to narrow this list down to make any real progress. I don't believe you can be making a sound decision when you mention a $50k 355 in the same thread as $400k Daytona and 599 GTO.

 

I'm a 430 advocate, if that is the type/look you seek. It is probably the least expensive to buy/own/drive modern Ferrari at this time. As mentioned above, $600-800 yearly plus amortizing the clutch by tossing in another $400. The power and drive-ability are great and the ride can be very pleasant for a mid-engine sports car. Depreciation has taken its biggest bite and they have been holding pretty steady the last 18 months or so after the 458's initial impact.

 

I am biased but I think you are missing out by not looking at 360's and 430's. I personally prefer the 360, not only because I can't afford a 430 but also because I think the 360 looks better. Coming from the world of small convertible sports cars I find the 360 to be the ultimate GT car, Its my wife's and I's first choice for any long distance driving. The 360 just eats freeway miles with extreme comfort. It goes really nicely in the twisties too

Best way to say it is when coming back from Phoenix as we rolled into Santa Barbara my wife said the drive was too short, could we just keep driving a while longer.

 

If a clutch is $2-3K and only lasts 20,000 miles (just numbers pulled from above, no idea if they are correct) then you need to put in $1,500/year for that clutch because you will need one every 2 years, unless the car is parked 99% of the year.

The original poster implied he wanted to drive the car, I look forward to seeing another Ferrari in SB

***Yes 99% is a exaggeration but it is easy to average 10,000+ miles/year in a Ferrari ***

 

Well ... I wish I had your dilemma!!!

if you are looking at a late 60's Ferrari then you are going to always have something unless you have it fully restored... 330 GTC's are great cars, but require routine mtns, which by the standards of the 60's was not bad, but by todays gas & go standards is huge!

if you are financially capable then i would reccomend a daytona coupe or GTC4 and a 360/ 550. you will always have the appreciation of the early Ferrari's with the driveablity of the new ones. i think you could be out for $300 or less and in good shape.

Finding a good daytona is going to be somewhat hard, but remember you can always restore / repair while adding value... the same is not true on cars after the Boxer/ Dino series... 308/328 are hovering at break even but its still a risk on anything over 10K miles.

As you must know the driving experience cant be any more different between the two sets of cars you are looking at... 330GTC ( one of my personal favorites) is a "work load car" its ok around town and easy on the highway... a bit of a load on the twisties and scary on the track... while the 458's and the ilk are just great everywhere, but you dont get that "involved" experience that you have with the older cars. the new cars take just as much concentration - but in the new cars you are using it to keep your self alive as the speeds are so huge!

money no object... 330gtc in argento with black interior & a matching color 458! you cant go wrong!!! all the best.

 

Tom, Your idea of a 330 GTC and a 458 seems like a great one. Alas, I may end up with a very unhappy wife. As the saying goes: "If momma isn't happy, no one is happy".
One car is what works best. I have been checking out the 599 GTOs on James list. It appears the numbers can vary from the high 300Ks to a seemingly dillusional high 500ks to 600ks. It seems contrary to the 250 and 288 GTOs the 599 was not designed with the intent to compete. This may reduce the future level of value.

 

The modern GTO's may be artifically high because of low production but they will NEVER equal a 250 GTO... simply no provenance no racing history and you will never be able to say that Oliver Gendibien won the Nurburgring in my car... or insert your fav 1960's driver here...

599 is a great car, but its so far from the 1960's Ferrari's... hard to even compare.

 

I think what you need is Daytona.

 

I am now 66 after all these years, bought & sold newer F1 ones
I went back to the old standby daily driver 84/308 gts quattrovalvole 48k miles,upgraded to
ELECTROMOTIVE SYSTEM like nite & day fully serviced I have $39k invested (money in bank)
this is going up in price SLOW but STRONG

that's all I have to say !