Miura "S" up for Auction

Per the Auction house words:

An undiscovered iconic Lamborghini Miura “S” given by the shipping magnate Aristotle Onassis to his favourite Greek pop superstar of the 60s and 70s, Stamatis Kokotas, is to be sold at the COYS “True Greats” Christmas auction in London next week on Tuesday December 4th.

One of only 140 produced, the car which was found after laying dormant for decades in a Greek warehouse could sell for up to £370,000. Onassis purchased it in the late 1960’s.

ALSO a second fully restored Lamborghini Miura SV, estimated at £370,000 to £420,000.
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Apparently the engine has been on display at the factory for years.

 

Its not a Miura SV.

Its a P400 (it very obviously still has a P400 front-end/nose on it, and much P400 interior such as wind-up windows).

Miura P400 chassis number 3132:
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?au...27&itemID=2055

- What we have here is a Miura with a P400 nose, and an SV tail that came off Harry Landsberg's (Lands Jeans) 4956 was involved in a factory testing accident in 1971.
- 1974 was after Miura production had ended. So, what we have here is a car that essentially is "a post-production modification", strictly speaking, it is, and always will be, "a modified P400".

For anyone interested in early cars converted to have some SV features, here is a P400S with SV features as a comparo:
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=AZ13&CarID=r143

 

Some time ago,
I met Mr. Kokotas at his car, and personally inspected it. It isn't as horrible as the pictures show, as it's had years of Athens dust building on it for many years. The interior is very well preserved, and the rest of the body is well preserved as well, except for the obvious minor damage in the nose.
Gary Bobileff

 

Very nice. Is it brown? Also, i wonder what that is that has been blurred out next to the left side door (on right of car)...

 

Looks like a fairly "easy" restoration, if that term can even be applied to a Miura.

 

On the green car, are the headlights half way poped up? Also, the black car seems to have a wider rear than the green car. I prefer the black car.

 

Yes, the headlamps are opened.

Andrew, the proportions on a fake SV are always different from car-to-car, and are never quite right. In fact, if you know what to look for, you can spot a fake from a distance away.

 

From all of the fake SVs i have seen (mostly in pictures), i agree. I wonder why. This black car is not quite perfect but i would say it is the closest to the real deal i have seen.

Price isnt too bad if it stays within estimates.

 

Hi Joe,
Reading the Miura #3132 description text in your Coys link I was wondering if the rear end of this particular car was in fact coming from Miura SV #4906 ?...
If it was coming from #4956 or #5100, should it not be respectively stamped 767 or 850 instead of 750 as mentionned ?
Just my 2 cents...

Bruno

 

Good point Bruno, but I cant confirm this one way or another.

 

Andrew, you know I agree with you 99% of the time. But, I must take you to task here

Not even close!!

Did you notice it doesn't even have an SV front end? It has a P400 nose still intact, nothing like an SV nose at all! Half the car is P400, and the back end has an SV bonnet, how can that possibly be a good imitation of an SV? And thats just the main faux pas on this SV fake.

Front wheels are still P400.
Half the interior is still P400.

Stop me anytime.... all I know is I am not allowing you to inspect any Miuras for Eduardo until you are up to speed

 

Factory converted cars are now fake..yikes.....

 

It wasn't factory converted.

In 1974 (after Miura production was over) they bought a rear bonnet & 2 rear wheels from the factory.

And now its a "factory-converted SV"?

I think not.

 

3132? the advertisement says it was converted at the factory...

 

I understand that.

But as we know about advertisements. On the other forum we are dealing with a 288 GTO that is advertised as the "first production car made". It is not. It is the sixth! People will say whatever they think is right, or whatever they think will bring the car they are selling more money.

Here is the proof the car was not CONVERTED to an SV: just look at it. Half of it (and more) is still a P400.

What makes this Miura a car converted to an SV? A rear bonnet & 2 wheels?

Please look at page 145 of http://joesackey.com/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/

There are several P400 that the factory CONVERTED into SVs during Miura production which ended in 1973. 3054, 3673, & 3745 are among them. Look at those cars today. Their physical existence is PROOF they are 100% SVs in terms of SV bodywork, SV chassis, SV engine, SV interior, SV wheels etc.

Personally, I think the sellers referring to this car as a "factory converted SV" is pretty uncool (not to mention obviously just plain wrong), and this mirrors the discussion that Marc Sonnery has brought up in the Countach thread.

Too much "stretching" going on in the Lamborghini world lately..

 

Joe,

So that I am clear. What are the differences in the body work, interior, engine, wheels, track and suspension in an SV verses an S? What can a properly converted car be bought for and how many good ones are there?

Thank you,

Geno

 

That car is a boy’s dream (young & old) regardless of how hacked up it may be.

I’d give them a couple grand to have it for 3 months just to wash it

 

There are so many differences they almost cant be made in a single post.

The Miura thread (and my book http://joesackey.com/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/) highlight all the differences you need to know.

I honestly could not even begin to tell you what modified Miuras are worth or what their market is, because I don't follow them. The reason for this is my personal belief that an unmodified P400, P400S or SV are a far more satisfying & valuable ownership experience than a modified Miura. That and perhaps the fact that none of my clients seem to have any interest in these cars.

Don't get me wrong, every single Miura out there is a wonderful machine that could be somebody's pride & joy, and is worth saving. But the age-old adage (which you have practiced yourself) of "Find the best one you can afford and buy it" applies here, and to me that means if you cant afford an SV, buy a very nice original P400S, etc etc.

FWIW my personal valuation of any modified car is: value of an average example of the model minus all costs to rectify it to original = price I'm prepared to pay.

As a light-hearted aside, an esteemed colleague of mine once uttered: "I can sell a genuine original SV for a million bucks easier that I can sell a Miura Mongrel for $100". True, in spite of the point being made in exaggerated terms! I suspect any interest in these modified Miuras that lay stretched claims towards being SVs is for the purpose of one day bringing them back to the way the original artisans built them.

 

An SV is said to have a chassis made from thicker gauge steel than a P400 or P400S. Unless a totally new chassis was made with the thicker gauge metal for 3054, 3673, & 3745, or any other Miura said to be converted by the factory in period, these cars cannot be 100% SV.

 

But....dont you agree that this is the best one at looking wide and aggressive as an SV? (which is the appeal in my book, at least until i drive a real SV).

I did notice the front was still P400 but didnt notice the front wheels were still P400 (easy to fix?).

 

"In 1974, while with the vendors brothers ownership the car was returned to Lamborghinis Santa Agata factory to be one of the very few examples that were re built to 'SV' specification by the factory in period.
Mechanical work undertaken by Lamborghini to turn the P400 into a 'SV' included re building the front and rear chassis, suspension and brake systems including brake cooling ducts, bigger and ventilated disc brakes were added and rear 'SV' suspension arm linkage too. The engine was re built with 'SV' improvements and wider 9´ wheels were mounted along with a wider 'SV' rear body which is stamped with nº 750, originally fitted to SV 5100, the donor to the 'SVJ' produced at the factory for Mr Lansberg. Notably the owners inform us that they have the original documents, letters and invoices from Lamborghini confirming all works carried out in the Santa Agata factory in 1974 to 'SV' specification, thus confirming that this is a factory built 'SV' specification car."

Hmmm. It looks like Coys haven't seen the original documents from Lamborghini. Shouldn't the owner at least furnish copies for bidders to inspect before bidding?

 

Yes I agree the black does make it very muscular.

 

No doubt the factory performed work on the car, post-production.

But half of it remains a P400!

When the factory CONVERTED an earlier car into an SV, it became an SV. This one isn't. I think the word that causese the issue is "converted". What happened here was some partial SV upgrades.

Either way, a nice car for someone to enjoy as is, or whatever they wish.

 

I'll have to disagree with you on this, Joe. In the absence of the chassis with the thicker gauge SV chassis metal, no P400 or P400S can become an SV. I'm no metallurgist or engineer but as far as I know you can't CONVERT the gauge of the steel to be thicker in the chassis. A complete new one would have to be fabricated or is that what the factory did with these cars you're referring to? Partial or even substantially SV maybe but not 100%. Much of the appeal for me of an SV is this stronger chassis that would have overcome the weakness of the earlier cars' tendency for chassis twisting, as we have discussed previously.