Hi I've been using my car daily throughout December. It has been taking a long time to warm up (10 Miles) I have been doing some research on the proper warm up technique and though you can find many differing pieces of advice what I do is this 1/ Start engine 2/ Wait 20 seconds (or till window clears if I've been parked outside this can take a few minutes) 3/ Drive off 4/ Keep revs below 3K and feather the throttle till water temperature needle moves off the bar 5/ No more than 4K or 50% throttle till oil temp gets between the first two bars The problem is that it takes a long time to heat up the oil! I read this thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381317 But disagree with why the oil takes longer to warm up. It is not because there is more of it. The water is right next to the cylinders which is where their source of heat comes from. The oils heat source is 1/ Friction when doing its job in journals / under cams etc. 2/ The water/oil heat exchanger Now the oil cooling system is not on a thermostat, so it is going through the oil cooler even when cold. To help this I made a little plug out of polystyrene. I tied some thin fire retardant cable sheath onto this (squashes easily under window seal), so I can pull it out once the oil temp gets above the first bar. Now I think it cant hurt, but at the same time I wasn't gob smacked by a massively reduced warm up time. I'm now thinking of temporarily sealing one of the vents alongside the engine view glass to help the engine warm up quickly. Anyone else done this? It might be best to explore why it is best not to hammer the car till the engine is warm. I think most of the wear on an engine (both in warm and cold weather) is on the first few cycles while the oil gets up to pressure when starting. Materials development make this much less of a problem than in the past. The major remaining problem is that the oil is too viscous to flow properly (quickly through journals) when cold and things that have finely tuned tolerances are both not oiled properly till the engine reaches temperature, and also will be out of tolerance due to thermal expansion and contraction. The oil pump will have to run at a higher pressure while cold, which increases chance of damage to other components / lines / and itself. Is the above correct? Any additions? There is nothing we can do about the first few cycles apart from manually cranking by hand a few times, or not letting the car sit too long (??). I wouldnt expect the oil flow / tolerances / oil pressure to cause problems unless running at 100% engine power, so perhaps its a bit of a none issue so long as not hammering the car? Lastly - bit of a thought experiment. We know that both of the below are false A/ Start engine cold in freezing temperatures, immediately rev to 8K, wheel spin off and reach 150MPH ASAP. B/ Start engine and leave idling till warmed up then drive away. Somewhere in the middle is the optimum solution. Even accepting that we avoid (B) for partly environmental reasons, perhaps I'm warming up too tentatively? Should I be using more throttle (at low revs in higher gears) to decrease the time that the engine is running at sub optimal temperatures? Hoping to start a discussion to get to the bottom of this! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If its really an issue you could modify the oil cooler to install a thermostat/bypass - I've seen it done on other cars. Can't remember how much oil is in a 360 but I'd guess its 8-10 litres (much like the rest of them) so a 10 mile warmup for that hardly seems excessive. Also its going to take at least that kind of time for the transmission to warm up as well. Lastly, suggest maybe consider the fine coating of salt you are likely to be covering the underside & suspension of your car with at this time of year - it won't do it much good!
10 miles is a concern when you only drive 15 miles to work! Salt... I have a 360 which is aluminium bodied and has a complete under tray. So its just the exposed nuts and bolts and top of shock absorbers to worry about (which are stainless steel). Going to plug up the lower brake duct holes tonight and see what that does. Transmission, going by feel, is happy after just a few miles.
I remember the old days when you had to start a fire under the oilpan of the truck to warm it up. Not suggesting that you put your ferrari on fire, but, any sort of driving will keep things cool. Best answer, start the engine before the wife make your coffee. That's if you are married 5 extra minutes in the garage running with the garage door open will save 15 minutes of driving or so in warming up procedures.
I drive 7 miles to work every day so my oil is still cold when I get to work but the water temp is of course normal. It is the same way in my Dino. I always attributed it to the aluminium block/sump in the Dino as it was my first aluminium motor, my thinking is that the aluminium while it can heat up faster, also cools faster where it touches the cold air. The 360 is modern day car, it will be fine. I start the motor, take my time getting comfortable, put my seat belt on and start driving, the car sits about a minute and I take it real easy on the throttle all the way to work. I make up for it by driving it a half hour or more most days coming home from work
Viscosity! Your car's engine wants the oil to have 14 centiStokes of viscosity. This is enough to float opposing surfaces to prevent metal to metal contact, and flow fast enough to carry away the heat generated in doing so. The problem is that cold oil is closet to 140cSt than 14cSt, in really cold weather it closer to 1400cSt. This means that it will flow slowly, so all that pump pressure is going to waste. It is the viscosity of oil that supports the moving parts, NOT the pump pressure. The pump only has to supply enough pressure to prevent the lubricated surface from drying out. Secondly, the parts in the engine are not at their critical working dimensions until the engine is good and warm. Those Ti rods are dimensionally small while the steel crank is dimensionally large, so the operating clearances are "just not right". And finally, most of the anti-wear additives in the oil don't start working until the oil temperature nears 200dF. The acid neutralizers start working in the 160dF range. Incorrect. Most of the early wear has to do with acid byproducts of combustion and the additive package not being at a temperature to deal with them. With the cold exhaust ports, the acids can cling to the surfaces of the whole exhaust system until it all gets up to temp. At really cold temperatures, and with high performance engines, a big dose of throttle on a cold engine can create such pressures in the lubricated journal bearing that the oil's viscosity is more resistant to shear forces than the babbit in the bearings!
From the 348 forward, Ferrari V8s should have a thermostat near or at the oil cooler. It is possible the OPs oil thermostat is lazy or broken. On my F355, even in colder temps (low 40F) my car with similar start up and drive off procedure as the OP, my car will have the oil temp up to 180F+ by 4 miles. I do not rev above 4k until the oil temp is at or above 180f
I liked the string and foam setup you got there, made me laugh ! I saw on the web there is a site for ideas like that, you could post a pic of it right next to the guy shown using the 2x4 to jack up his truck. I can tell you what has worked for me: I start the engine and let it idle until until the automatic choke brings the engine speed down to the normal Idle speed, this normally takes about 4-5 min, I watch the tac and I have also timed it on the second hand. Light throttle for the first 10 min, thereafter normal throttle application. Water heats up quick, oil takes longer to warm up, even cold, the oil is still lubricating things. I drive the car for about 45 min to an hour, enough time to get rid of the condensation and acids. Been doing it this way for years, the v-6 in my Chevy is showing 172 psi at 256,000 miles for a 23 year old pickup. In the summer I warm for 2-3 min, winter I warm for 4-5 min. I change the oil regularly. I use castrol 5w-30 Tony
The foam plug idea has been used by some of the 308/328 owners...as they have no thermostat on the oil cooler. They got the idea from the 308GT4, which actually had a remotely operated door (cable actuated) to close off air flow to the oil cooler. But the big difference is the vent was exclusive for the oil cooler, as the radiator is up front. Blocking the flow as shown by the OP is also blocking one of the radiators...which may or may not be a problem in cooler weather. I don't know.
So do you think that there may be two different designs for the same car model, I.e. one designed for cooler climates that would incorporate a cold weather system and one model for a warmer climate sans the cold weather pkg. A lot of car manufacturers do this very same thing. I can't imagine that Ferrari would not have both. Italy does have both summer and winter seasons Or maybe the owner would be required to install a system to suit the particular application. Tony P.s. I remember my 1967 VW bus had a knob under the drivers seat that was used to regulate the heat exchangers, more towards closed during winter, more toward open during summer.
May be relevant- years ago, Lockheed did research on engine wear/warm up methods, and concluded the best way to warm up a car engine is not to let it sit idling in the cold to "warm" it up. The idea is to drive it right away, gently. accelerate gradually, and engine will wear less like that "under load". Less engine wear, in conclusion.
I don't think there's a thermostat valve on the oil system, on the 360 anyway. 360 has the coolant radiators up front, only the oil cooler behind the vent shown blocked. Is the OP having a laugh though? That was my first impression! My feeling is Ferrari spent a lot of time thinking about this so that we don't have to. Heating up the engine oil faster isn't going to get heat into your gear oil much quicker, nor will it put heat into your tyres. I feel it's all a package and you just gotta' take your time and warm her up gently.
Immediately after starting, rev it up, bounce it off the limiter and hold it there. Makes the engine warm up faster which is better.
Mitch, at what oil temp for something like a 5w-40 weigh oil is the temperature "high enough?" My manual says 156F but I always thought it had to be higher. Thanks in advance.
High enough for what? 120dF is high enough to use the car as a normal adult would in traffic. 160dF is high enough to use the car as intended on back roads. 200dF is high enough to flog the living snot out of the car.
You are right, no oil thermostat for 360 or 348. 348 has a seperate electric fan for the oil cooler, but no thermostat. It would appear the 360 does not have a thermostat either, from the parts book. I know on my 308 and 328 it definitely took a good 7 or 8 miles to get the oil up to temp in winter...
The water coolers are both at the front for the 360, the port I have blocked is exclusively for the OIL cooler. I have found the ricambi page and will attach the picture below http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=679 As you can see from the parts list, there is no thermostat regulating oil flow. Logically I don't think one could exist because the oil always needs to flow, and the pressures involved are high so effecting a solution would be hard. Thanks for the explanation regarding acid build up. Does this damage the block surfaces directly or damage the oil which then cannot protect so well? Unfortunately I'm serious! Im not sure what Ferrari would say if I told them I'm using it as a daily during December... driving 15 Miles. Xmission is not as expensive, and I've not heard of them breaking because of over revving when cold. Tyres, well they don't wear/become damaged as an engine does in the cold. Its pretty hard to get them warm anyway when the ground is at 2 deg C. Its an experiment to find how to speed engine warm up and hopefully reduce engine wear when cold. I did a bit more DIY port bungs last night, no real help. Today I'll try air vent muffs. I have tought about a sump heater - but dont really want to start drilling holes. If you could get stick on heater mats I'd probably do that. Sweden for example, you just plug your car in half an hour before you set off, oil is up to 80 deg C and your windows are defrosted. ACE! The old BMW 850 had an option for a parrafin pre-heater that you could program to turn on at a certain time and heat everything up for you. cool. PS thank god I don't have a challenge grill!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Have used these for years in Alaska on the truck's oil pan. The F-car belongs in a garage. http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1355327216&sr=1-3 Push an engine with cold oil and you'll spin a bearing - guess how I learned that one :-( Rgds, Vincenzo Image Unavailable, Please Login
Salt... I have a 360 which is aluminium bodied and has a complete under tray. So its just the exposed nuts and bolts and top of shock absorbers to worry about (which are stainless steel). Salt is more corrosive on aluminum than it is on steel. That is why they don't use salt on airport runways. They use an expensive substitute, I believe it is called Urea. It cost about 10 times the cost of salt. Ago
The easiest thing would be to heat your garage. Personally, I wouldn't want to drive my 360 15 miles to and from work at this time of year. If it's taking you 10 miles to warm up - assuming you don't drive it anywhere else (big assumption), 2/3rds of your mileage is done below the correct operating temperature.
