In case anyone is interested, a 308 GTB weighs 3,159 lbs (US model) according to Bluemel.
Here are some of the numbers I had on the various 308 and mondial values (I think they were from Bluemal's book): Wheelbase: 308 GT4: 100.4 inches 308 (GTB/GTS) QV: 92.1 inches Mondial QV: 104.3 inches Dry Weight: 308 GT4: 3197 lb 308 GTB QV: 3190 lb 308 GTS QV: 3229 lb Mondial QV: 3419 (coupe), 3286 (cabrio) 308GT4 (1975): 240 bhp at 6600rpm and 195 lb ft at 5000 rpm 308QV: 230-235bhp. (didn't find torque numbers). Mondial: Same numbers as for 308 QV.
A friend of mine has resently restored his 1975 Euro GT4. Weight was approx 2800 lbs wet. It has euro cams and a fresh rebuild with Caprista exhaust with approx 275 HP. I have owned and driven multiple Ferrari's and other exotics. His GT4 is more fun and interesting to drive than any stock 355, sorry, just a fact; the cab forward design of the GT4 is reminiscent of the P cars and the 512's. He'd tell you also, as he has owned more than a couple of 355's and has sold them all. Funny, he still owns the 308 GT4 Euro, 246 Dino, Daytona.... get my drift.
The "Guy" is the Mr. Know-it-all who DOES NOT own the car in question, coming into a forum of owners who are discussing their cars, to be the "Voice of reason". Most of these kinds of threads have a "that guy". Look- a GT4 ain't a BB... it ain't a Daytona. It was not built to be a supercar or to be the world's best car- we get it. We're just saying that it is a particularly inetresting slice of Ferrari history- rare and undervalued, a great situation for someone looking to buy one. Those of us who own good examples could care less about future values, but it is interesting to look into the future a bit and see if these cars might be more prized in a few years. There was a time when 330 2+2's were in the $20Ks, not that long ago...
The "Guy" is the Mr. Know-it-all who DOES NOT own the car in question, coming into a forum of owners who are discussing their cars, to be the "Voice of reason". Most of these kinds of threads have a "that guy". hope you're not referring to me as a know it all; I actually have owned a GT4 for the last 18 years, #15310; my friend who I have referrenced lives locally and is known to others on this web site, but I have refrained from mentioning his name out of courtesy. I will assume you comment is misplaced or mis interpreted. Yes, we all know a BB365 or BB512 are more desirable; If a limited production flat 12 is not appreciating well (due to the expense of restoring and maintaining ), how would you expect a 348, 355 or 360 to appreciate in 10-20 years? The engine, valve, header and computer expense will most likely sink 355's in the future. Just look a Porsche post air cooled 993's; 911's, turbos and Boxter's are a dime a dozen. getting back to the original thread... The other arguement could be, since BB's are the high end model for that production time period and aren't appreciating significantly, they will keep a ceiling on 308's in general.
Per 1983 308QV U.S. version owner's manual: GTB: 3290 lbs. GTS: 3340 lbs. The door plate on my '83 GTS shows 3760 lbs. - guess that's with 2 occupants + fuel Yep. Ten years ago a Series II at $28.5K slipped through my fingers, paid $32.5K for my Series I on 12-1-2002.
I think people need to compare apples and apples if they are talking bbs now. A bb today for 85 grand is a dead car ....a bb for 85 grand 10 yrs ago was a driver....not sure why everyone is saying bbs are not increasing in value. A lot of talk in here with little data providing fact. The gt/4 is the cheapest point of entry for a carb v8 in the Ferrari line up. If you ever wanted a carb v8 , now is the time to jump in , because they ain't making anymore
A fellow GT4 owner and I were talking yesterday. This fellow lives in London and was fortunate enough to have drinks with Niki Lauda last year. Lauda spoke very highly of the GT4's handling, which of course he helped develop when he was racing for the Scuderia. I feel like the Lauda chassis development side of the story is under-discussed as a reason to love the GT4. Putting all this discussion of curb weight and power aside, classic car values have little to do with numbers. It's all irrational in the end. A non-car example: The Heuer Monaco watch was also an avant garde design that didn't sell well in the early 70s. If it hadn't been worn by McQueen in the movie Le Mans, only watch nerds and design buffs would collect them today. Instead, because of the McQueen connection, they are the most valuable vintage Heuers. I feel like watch and car collectors are very much susceptible to group think. And the old guard group think on GT4's (and Dinos in general) was very negative and frankly rather snobbish. I think there is a growing critical mass of positive group think on these cars due to the design being old enough to be appreciated now. The V6 Dino has an entirely new group think around itself now. It's only a matter of time before the narrative shifts on the GT4 as well.
No, I agree with all of that. This thread is postulating that GT4's will be worth more than 360's in 5-10 years. I was listing reasons why I thought that wouldn't happen. That's the whole point of discussion forums. Edit: I should specify that I agree that the gt4's are an interesting slice of history and undervalued and make a great entry to Ferrari ownership. However the leap from that to worth more than a 360 is a big one....I just don't see another car taking it's place as the entry level enthusiast car.
What does a US gt4 weigh? Didn't they tack on a few hundred pounds worth of crap for the US cars (both gt4 and gtb/gts)? Weights I've seen for euro fiberglass 308 gtb was 2774lbs with half tank of gas, steel 25-30lbs. more. I have never seen weight quoted for a US vs. Euro GT4.
Per best source I have - Original Ferrari V8, author Keith Bluemel: US - 3197 lb. dry Euro - 2998 lb. dry Yes, looks like 199 lbs. extra crap on the US version. For original steel 308: US GTB - 3159 lb. Euro GTB - 2932 lb. US GTS - 3225 lb. Euro GTS - 2998 lb. Book doesn't give specific weight for the 308 Vetrosina.
Who cares if a GT4 will become worth more than a 360? Buy the model you like, with your heart, not your wallet. You need that one later for the maintainance!
Well this has nothing to do with the point of this thread- It's just negative nonsense. how many Series 1 GT4s are left in America?? Unmolested? With books and tools? 50? 100? Not rare?? Please. Performance is not good? Read the magazines of the day, they thought the car was a revelation and a performance upgrade from the 246. (But the styling was universally panned) These cars will be worth a lot more in the future for two reasons- 1) They're all worth more in the future...that's how it works. 2) DINO. It says DINO on the car and when 246's are WELL over $1 Million in 10-15 years the GT4 will be the "poor Man's" Dino at $75-100K. Write this down and check back with me in 2027.
I've happened across maybe two dozen GT4s and 80% were sitting in rough to very poor condition in repair shops and behind buildings or on ebay or in a thread here. A few nice ones seen here and one really nice example at a show. Lots of rough to poor 308s out there as well but as a high-production and longtime popular model the ratio of nice ones to poor ones is higher.
NEw Zealand I understand from the main dealer for F cars in NZ - that of the 24 series 1 and early 2's RHD - sold into NZ new- they think only 8-9 are still relatively original and of those 5 are in excellent shape. If this was close to accurate extrapolated it could mean only 30-40 % of the origional fleet remain in good condition.
This is not only a stretch, but impossible. The gt/4 is lower on the pecking order compared to the 308 .... At best 1 in 10 cars are good solid drivers. And by drivers I mean, a car you can drive to the track, and then drive home without drama - interior and paint being decent or better is optional. I think that number is very very optimistic world wide.
O well here is the weight of my Euro 308 GT4 And yes he did drive the car....... AL Image Unavailable, Please Login
That could apply to 308s in general as well. I was out looking at a 360 for sale at a local dealer/shop and the salesman said that the 308s that come in for trade or repairs are more often pretty rough. They also had a GT4 in the shop holding area - messy but it didn't look hopeless. In Dallas, the best 308s can be seen at Norwood Performance. Had mine there recently and there were five others, GTB and GTC, all rosso corsa and all in good driver to prime condition. That is a beautiful sight to see!
