Excellent quote. I find it genuinely disturbing that any adult thinks it is reasonable (or worse - normal) to have vast arsenals of deadly weapons sitting around in a family home. It is utter madness. Pure and simple. The results are there for all to see. Why can't they see it?
Holy crap! I just spent a few minutes looking at the thread on this subject in P & R. I don't think I've ever been so grateful to be Australian. If that is really a reflection of the attitudes of most Americans, particularly in light of the horror which just happened, I'm quite sure I never want to go there.
i'm going in 2 weeks for the 2nd time and taking my family again... my first time was not a good experience. I thought it was because we had high expectations and were disappointed with many respects. It was quite frustrating. I thought it was time to go back with lower expectations, understand the society a little better and this time actually enjoy the place. I am starting to have second thoughts. I had no idea that the average joe blo could carry such weapons. So every member of society there could be a loose cannon. This time i will curb my frustrations with people, you never know if they could pull a gun. I remember landing in London and jumping into a cab and siging "Thank God we are here." The cab driver saying:- "Ah you're an Aussie..bet you just flew in from the states"....lol.
Great to be in London, where the police are now carrying guns because of the crime there as well. The radical muslims there have all but taken over because of the political correctness by the government. Look, crazy people are always going to do unspeakable crimes like the one that just happened here in the school. You can ban all the guns, then knives, bows and arrows, and any other killing instrument you can think of, and criminals and nuts will always be able to access them because they function outside of the laws and norms of society. Which leaves law abiding citizens unable to defend themselves. If an intruder comes into your home or my home, what are we supposed to do? Ask them politely to leave?
Steve, respectfully, if that's your attitude, then please stay home. Dean, not every joe blow is carrying a gun. Thats illegal. To carry concealed you have to be background checked and attend classes to be sure you undserstand all applicable laws. You also have to demonstrate proficiency with said weapon. Beyond that there are restrictions for where it can not be carried such as government buildings and anywhere that serves alcohol. any business that does not want people to carry a legally concealed firearms has that right and can post a sign to bar carriers from entering. This is not a national system, but this is how it works in Texas. To be sure, you will not hear about someone with a legally concealed weapon committing a crime. That's not what happens. The crimes are committed by criminals. Hope you have a good trip.
Yet another overly-dramatic bomb from a self-appointed protector of all who would be harmed? Your argument is pretty sad, really. Because America doesn't ban guns, America hates kids? Um, I can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse or if you're having a piss. Either way, that's asinine. Your rhetoric really is humourous, though. Thanks for keeping it going to Monday. CW
All I can say is that I love London. Would live there in a heart beat. I am travelling back to the USA just because I truly feel that there are many decent people there. I have met alot of of great people on this forum and i thought after my first bad and frustrating experience in the USA i really owe you guys a second chance to show me that i formed the wrong impression the first time. As i said, maybe i travelled to USA the first time with stars in my eyes and great expectations and i was very disappointed. Now when i arrive i will understand that the USA is really not that different to Australia. So best to go with the flow.
Given that your comments are about as sane as the shooter's, I really don't think your opinion carries all that much weight, either. I'm glad you can find a venue for your tilted rants, though. Much like at Morett'si, I pretty much burst out laughing. CW
The "joke" is the AUS-centric arguments propounded here. What may work for AUS doesn't necessarily work for other countries. CW
Alienated? Not at all. Actually, the US is deeper in it than you acknowledge. The tentacles go everywhere and touch virtually everything. The fact that some may not like America's policies or practices is regrettable, but America doesn't particularly care that its policies aren't popular. America does what it does, regardless. CW
VERY difficult, if not impossible, to do. From a Constitutional Law perspective, I don't think you've got anywhere near the necessary votes to do it. Remember, as drafted, rights are inalienable. Further, with the modern partisan lines, I think there's a better chance of war with AUS. There's nothing particularly wrong with the US Constitution. Some individuals will do dumb things (and there were dumb people then, too), but this is traded off against the vast freedoms that everyone else enjoys. The Founding Fathers weighed these and drafted it the way they did, based on their history with the King and his army. We are rooted in that. BTW, Democracy (and, even, representative Republic) isn't all that different from mob rules. CW
Well, people are free to do dumb things. We can't stop them. We have laws to punish them if their actions hurt others directly. But, if you want to destroy yourself, you have the freedom to do so. Choice requires responsibility. CW
Most of the weapons in America are kept quietly locked up in our homes, but they are there. You don't need to be afraid to come here, this isn't the wild west, but it is a republic, the individual has the greatest amount of power, not the government. People that cannot own guns are not free people but subjects of another power and are easily enslaved. In the history of monarchies, the power goes from God to the crown and the crown loans certain rights to the people. In the US, power goes from God to the people and the people loan certain power to the government. This tragedy was a terrible crime but we will never surrender our guns to the government. Why on earth would anyone wish that government have all of the guns and the people be disarmed is beyond comprehension.
The answer to your question is, I have no idea. However, you're asking the wrong question, I think. I think you need to pose the question in terms of re-writing the Constitution (and, perhaps, the Declaration of Independence), as did Pete. What's it going to take? There's an answer to that question, but taking rights are serious business and isn't going to be a rubber-stamp procedure. Does America have history that's unpleasant? Sure. But, so what? Every country does to some extent. Does it make us worse or better? Not particularly. Stalin killed 30MM of his own people, and America is "bad"? We have to lay that brick down and concentrate on where we are today. It may be the prologue, but we're in the here and now. I think we are self-aware, but I don't know what you want America to do about it. There are just certain laws, policies and self-interested actions that aren't going to be popular. Are you suggesting we should have our laws, policies and actions dictated to us by World opinion? CW
I would never, as an American, pre-suppose to know what's best for AUS and Australians. Or anyone. I don't even understand your nuanced history and how it influences your current exchanges with each other. But, I'm not ego-centric enough to tell you how to conduct your affairs. Americans, generally, however, believe in Democracy and freedom from persecution, which is why we help in places that have no particular importance to our economic or political goals. Somalia? Kosovo? The US has often led in international actions, putting American lives at risk (and often suffering many killed and wounded in actions for it). We may not be perfect, but you want us when you need someone to help. And, we are happy to extend a helping hand virtually anywhere. CW
Let's agree to disagree. I think that some of us will never agree with the US philosophy on this one. And i suppose that is our right to do so, just like it is your right to bear arms in the USA. That's why we choose to live in Australia. For the most part we trust our government and doubt that they will ever become oppressive dictators, apart from screwing us with high taxes. hence there is no need for us to bear arms and form our own militia to fight the government. Goodnight i am bailing out of this argument forever.
Two handguns and a semi-automatic rifle qualifies as a "vast arsenal"? Hyperbole doesn't win the argument. CW
I think you over-state the threat. There are many fine and welcoming people here. In fact, many Aussies (among other international workers) are working here without incident. Can something happen? Sure. But, bad things can happen anywhere. Would the outcome be any different if you were visiting the top floor of the WTC on 9/11? We cannot retreat into our shells and live life like there's a target on your back when you go out your front door. Enjoy your life. Travel. If you don't want to go to the US, then don't. But, I think you have a very skewed impression of the statistics. CW
