Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

But they wreaked it with that plastic kids toy looking cover

 

Do you have an insiders knowledge, case this is news to anyone following Porsche motorsport...
The 918RSR has been around for almost a year now, and it's not eligible to race anywhere, nor has it raced yet... As far as I can tell it's similar to Ferrari's XX projects.

Anyway the Race-car uses the flywheel tech instead of the batteries used by the road car, making it not really representative of the road car..

Regarding Porsche road cars being raced, the 997 GT3 RS racing at the ring was probably be the last road car they race in a long time, since the new 991 cars all have 9A1 DFI engines which don't have dry sumps, and are thus not suitable for racing. Even Porsche next 991 GTE and GT3 contenders will use the old engines instead of the road engines used by their respective homologation road cars.

 

The highest finishing Hybrid ever at the 24 Hours of Nurburgring was battery not flywheel KERS so I hardly see that being an issue.

The 918/P1/and F70 are all eligible to race at the 24 Hours of Nurburgirng and other races such as the 24 Hours of Spa.

The P1 and 918 could easily be turned into race elegible cars with the potential to finish First overall at the 24 Hours of Nurburgring by their manufacturer or by a Privateer. The F70 because of it's V12 couldn't.

I've talked to McLaren about racing a P1 at the 24 Hours of Nurburgring and a Developmental driver for Porsche told be several are thinking about racing a 918 at the Ring as well.

 

You keep mentionig the V12 as a huge problem, when in fact it is not, as for all the competitions you mentioned are not Rule based but BoP based, and it's a simple matter of giving the nex enzo a larger tank through BoP, same way 458 got a smaller tank then the opposition cause it had way better fuel consumption then the opposition... This again is pointless as It's not down to the concept, but to Ferrari's willingness to race, which is unlikly, if they wanted I'm sure some type of deal would be struck that would make i competitive, similar to BMW z4 or M3 GTR

regarding the Porsche 918 racing. There is already a 918RSR which would/should have raced this year if they intended to race it at nirburgring at all...

 

What part of if I or any other Privateer wants to race a 918 or P1 a 918 or P1 can and will race in 2014 are you unable to understand?

Your remarks on V12 are not true. The FIA rules on the only class where a 918, P1 or F70 could race are VERY clear and under those rules a V12 would not have a chance. A 918 and a P1 would be very competive. If you removed an F70's V12 and replaced it with a GT3 level V8 it could race as well which as Bob said could "Very easily be done".

 

There is also nothing stopping you from racing a ferrari, other then the factory being pissed of...But then again this is also true for porsce, If they chose not to race it, no privateer will, same as no privateer raced the C-GT- they were actively discouraged by porsche from doing so...

Again you are making 0 sense...
There is no FIA competition currently supporting the use of hybrids in GT cars...and none of these cars are eligable for the Prototype class...In other words no GTE or P1/P2 racing for them, even if FIA changed the rules to alow them, you can be sure that if P1/918/F70 competed against each other that FIA/ACO will make sure they are balanced, this includes restrictor changes, and fuel tank changes, meaning any type of engine has a chance....

If you are referring to the N24 rules. , which are in themselves governed only by BoP... all comers welcome.

Now there is an old saying "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi". Meaning the rules or rather BoP given to you, is not the same that would be given to a full factory squad from Ferrari or any other manufacturer make....Evident by the BoP given to Audi/Mercs during the last N24, and too many other to either count or mention.

For someone that is deeply involved in racing, and obviously invested a lot of resources and time into it, you haven't gotten the No1 thing that is evident to everyone. Manufacturers and Privateers play by different rules and are treated differently by the rule makes...
Example1:
BMW M3 GTR a completely iligal car by the rulebook proposed by ACO/FIA yet it was given over 30+ waivers just so that it could compete..And when that wasn't enough it was given such BoP that it completely annihilated the competition..etc...

more recently BMW Z4 with a V8 engine.. another completely iligal car that was given compensation by ACO to race, even though the rules clearly state that the race car must have the same engine block as the car that is used to homologate it...

Not to mention over 47 waivers given to corvette to race, or the (defiantly over the 5.5l limit) 8L viper....etc.etc.etc....

 

Your ranting remains silly and not true. There are very specific FIA rules for Hybrid cars EXP 2 Hybrid under which P1, 918 and F70 can all race. There are several 24 hours that will invite cars built to EXP 2 Hybrid rules to enter and cars that race under those rules in those events are eligible to win an FIA Championship as we did this year.

If anyone wants to race a P1, 918, or F70 they can. That is fact.

 

a) FIA CUP.
b) There is exactly 0 manufacturers that race cars under the EXP 2 rules.
c) The big boys race in FIA/ACO Le Mans and FIA GT3, the N24 only pick up the cars from those championships and tailors their rules to fit them....
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I don't mean to argue here or to say I don't believe you but I have been trying to look on the FIA website (pretty badly obviously) and can't find anything related to regulations for EXP 2 Hybrid.

Can you direct me please?

Thanks

 

exp hybrid is a class in the german localy run championship adac vln which runs n24. the fia champiomship he is refering to is fia alternitive emergies cup in which his car is the sole entrant in the hybrid race car category of the said cup

 

All I can find on the FIA website is this list for 2012:
FIA Alternative Energies Cup
- Driving Tests events cat IIIA (electr)
- Driving Tests events cat IIIA (electr)
- Driving Tests events cat VII – VIII
- Driving Tests events cat VII - VIII
- Manufacturers’ Cup cat IIIA
- Manufacturers’ Cup cat VII – VIII
- Solar events cat I - Olympia Class
Circuit
- Solar events cat I - Olympia Class
Rallies
- Solar events cat I - Solar Powered
Vehicles-circuit
- Solar events cat I - Solar Powered
Vehicles Rallies

 

Category VI : Racing Sports-Prototypes.

Category VII : Hybrid electrical vehicles.

on the home page of the championship http://www.fia.com/championship/alternative-energies-cup/alternative-energies-cup

also mentioned is the N24 race in the scheduale...

 

" FIA Alternative Energies Cup-Speed Circuit events cat VII"
is the Championship we won in 2012 and that the 918, P1, F70 and P 4/5 Competizione are elegible to compete in under FIA EXP 2 Hybrid regulations.



2012 FIA Alternative Energies Cup-Manufacturer's Cup cat VII - VIII
Pos Manufacturers MCO ESP ITA ITA CAN GRC SMR SRB Pts
1 FIAT 6 6 8 13 0 16 20 20 89
2 ALFA ROMEO 0 8 6 10 0 20 16 16 76
3 TOYOTA 3 20 0 0 20 12 0 12 67
4 LEXUS 0 10 0 0 12 10 8 0 40
5 PEUGEOT 4 0 10 13 0 0 12 0 39
6 HONDA 5 0 0 2 16 6 0 2 31
7 FORD 0 16 0 0 10 0 0 0 26
8 OPEL 8 2 0 0 0 0 6 0 16
9 MERCEDES 0 0 0 0 0 4 10 0 14
10 CHEVROLET 0 12 0 1 0 0 0 0 13
= CITROEN 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 10 13
12 DACIA 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10
13 AUDI 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 8
= BMW 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 8
= GMC 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 8
16 PORSCHE 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 6
= RENAULT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 6
18 BYD 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 4
= VOLKSWAGEN 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 4
= ZASTAVA 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4
21 SKODA 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
= SUBARU 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2

2012 FIA Alternative Energies Cup-Speed Circuit events cat VII
Pos Drivers Pts
1 Fabrizio Giovanardi (ITA) 10

2012 FIA Alternative Energies Cup-Speed Circuit events cat VIII
Pos Drivers Pts
1 Thomas Hanish (DEU) 10
2 Ralph Caba (DEU) 8
3 Michael Schidt (DEU) 6
4 Titus Dittman (DEU) 5



Despite "arakisfilip's" silly not true ranting the fact remains that the FIA which is based in France not Germany makes the rules for this class and several race organisers have invited cars to compete in this class. (The 24 Hours of Spa and Nurburgring for example).

Once again if anyone wants to race a P1, 918 or F70 at 24 Hours of Nurburgring, The 24 Hours of Spa and or events in Asia and The Middle East do get in touch and we'll help you navigate the regulations and requirements and to build an race an FIA compliant car should one wish.

 

Thanks Jim,

Just to clarify in the table you posted above the "only" place you appear is with Giovanardi in the driver Cat VII am I right?

Unfortunately it's pretty sad that manufacturers don't get involved a little more in these races but I guess they are too expensive and the marketing rewards minimal if any.

 

So far yes. The 918, P1 and F70 are the pinnacle of Porsche, McLaren and Ferrari's product line. It would be great to see them race each other.

Manufacture and Sponsor interest in Sports Car Racing is waining but there are still possibilities.

We are in talks with a venerable manufacturer to mount a factory effort in 2014 in a major series. You never know.

 

From the VLN website (VLN is the seriesbehind Nurbergring24)

The regulation for the 24h Specials Vehicles was created specially for the Nürburgring 24-Hour Race, to offer nearly every vehicle the possibility to contest the event. This category is open for thoroughbred racing cars of nearly every kind.

Special Vechicals class is under which all the EXP sub-classes are run

There is no such thing as a FIA EXP II class...if there is Napolis provide links..
EXP classes as stated above are designed to let preaty much anyone race the N24...

The Fia Alternative cup regulations are equaly free and waige...

BTW I would really like for you Napoils to please point out one false statement that I have made...

99% of your posts about racing here have been overinflated and PR-like, at times crossing the line between fact and wishful thinking. To name a few would be your constant insistance that a unknown CUP where there is only one car entered in your class, and scored on only one track (for your class) is an actual FIA world championship... etc...etc..

I do understand that p4/5 is your baby, and there is a whole lot to be proud of, but a little humility would not be far off at this ponit. Basically any and all of your comments on the F70 subject were either a PR campaign for your car, or just plain Ferrari sucks and XXX (insert any other top mauf) is so much better...

 

Here is the 155 page FIA pdf that specifies exactly what you have to do if you want to be classed by the FIA as P 4/5 Competizione is and compete for this FIA Championship as the 918. P1 and F70 could.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/RegleTech_EnergieAlternative_09.10.2012.pdf

As per our recent conversation with the FIA about these regulations P 4/5 Competizione, 918, P1 and F70 will have to meet these regulations and have GT3 level petrol performance (About 530HP as measured on a chassis dyno set to FIA standards) plus 50KW hybrid performance charged only by recapturing energy that would otherwise be lost not by recharging in the pits.

 

If u want to see wich car is the best, just take the F70, P1 and 918 and race them against each other. And I'm not talking about a FIA sanctioned event, I'm talking about a competition between the manufacturers.
There should be NO RULES. That means no engine, aerodynamics or weight restrictions. Then u will see which manufacturer can build the fastest car.
IMO it will be a 2 horse race, the 918 doesn't stand a chance. It's too HEAVY, 1700 kg is a HUGE weight 4 a supercar.

 

Its not classic racing, but you can search for some videos from Russia. They like to race supercars on highways. No limits. Just one car against other. Also there are a lot of guys on Autobahn that race cars from 200 km/h

 

I agree and basically this is what Ring times are.

I still think around the Ring P1 will be fastest followed by F70
and then 918.

It will be interesting to see if The F70 can beat The Ferrari factory's
599xx Ring Time of 6:58. I think P1 will.

 

I doubt that. The 599XX is lighter and produces more downforce than the P1.
Anyway I never understood why Ferrari have taken the 599XX on the Ring instead of the FXX. The FXX is faster. Also that 6:58 was set by a 599XX. The 599XX EVO will probably beat that time by around 5 seconds.
As 4 the FXX EVO, if Ferrari were to mount a bigger rear wing, I think it will even beat the Zonda R's time of 6:47.

IMO the Ring is not the best circuit in the world to test a car because it's too bumpy. In order to do a lap, u need to raise the car, thus loosing stability and downforce. Maybe that's the reason Ferrari never took the FXX to do a lap there.

And since we are talking about Ferrari, the best track car they have ever made is the F50 GT , chasis 001 --- it has 950 HP and it only weighs 900 kg. If u were to mount modern brakes and tyres on it, I reckon it can lap the Ring in around 6:30.

The 918 has around 800 HP, weighs 1700 kg and it did a lap in 7:014.
Since the P1 and F70 have more HP and weigh 3-400 kg less, my prediction is that they will both be 10 seconds faster, if not more.

 

FXX is faster but not on that rough surface. It would bottom out all over the place and be unstable. It even had an issue on the corkscrew at Laguna Seca.

 

Anyway, from what I've seen so far, the F70 looks stunning.

I'm going to go off topic here (sorry 4 that), but I've been dying to ask 2 questions. I'll probably look stupid 4 asking them, but here they are :

1. Do any of u guys know why Ferrari have never made a road-legal car with a central driving position ?
The Enzo would have looked out of this world if it had a central driving position.

2. The Ferrari F2012 has a 2.4 litre NA V8 that develops around 700-750 HP. That's around 300 HP / litre.
The 458 Italia has a 4.5 litre NA V8 that develops "only" 560 HP. That's around 125 HP / litre.

Why such a big difference ? I know that F1 cars only need to last during the race, but still the difference is too big.

Can't they obtain around 200 HP/ litre for a road car ???

 

1. Yes.

2. With Turbos yes but ultra high hp per liter engines are less durable. You might want to ask how long long those 1600HP TT Lambo's last on a Lambo forum.

PS.

So far a 918 has done a 7:14 not a 7:014 at The Ring but that was from a standing start so my quess remains around 7:10.
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Mr. Glickenhaus, that looks great. But it's a one-off car.
What I meant was : why haven't they built an entire series with central driving position ? For instance, what if all their anniversary cars only had a central driving position ?
McLaren did that with the F1 back in 92. That car could have been the best supercar ever if it would have had a proper suspension.