Enzo Market Value

When comparing F40 prices from 1990 to now, does one not account for inflation?
$320,000 in 1990(MSRP of an F40)= $563,000 today which is around the market value, right?
Am I over thinking this and is inflation not factored in when looking at car values?

EDIT: I am not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to understand the situation and why no one ever mentions inflation because the values of the cars change but so does the dollar.

 

Because you think I am making it up????

Sure, I will upload later. I have often wondered why Ferrari don't offer to upgrade the software on the Enzo gearbox, I would almost certainly buy one if they did and it was to the same standard as an SFII. I am sure they would charge a frightening amount for it, but it would be nice to have that option. It can't be that complicated??? I just doubt it is on the agenda for them or a priority and I am sure they like the evolution of improvement in those gearboxes. For instance, if they were to improve the gearbox on the Enzo I would be less inclined (or desperate) to buy an F70.

 

You are not wrong at all.

 

No he has a very rare vin fetish.

 

Changing the software or the shift settings are a non issue. You do have to make sure not to overdo it or your clutch life will suffer but we've done it and got 4K clutch miles running VERY hard including 2K on the track and so far over 6K miles with no issue on "normal" road running.

Changing out the gearbox for a manual could be done as well. The sequential box we use in P 4/5 Competizione is fantastic. The clutch pedal gets you going but you dont need it to shift as engine management senses shift and cuts fuel and ign. for a millesecond.

Cheers

 

I look at inflation because people remark that they can't believe what an F40 is worth now, or an F50 for that matter. As you have pointed out though, often todays value is only the equivalent of the original purchase price. I think when people comment on todays values, that is more a result of them having seen the prices surge from far below the original price even accounting for inflation up to where they are today. If in 2008 you were offered a 180k F40 and today you fancy one, it is 400k - then that gets people doing their research. We all know why these things are worth what they are worth today and it doesn't have much to do with inflation if you ask me. More a product of cash in the bank being worth nothing and lots of uncertainty in more classic investment classes. Not to mention the surge in popularity of historic racing. The reasons behind the price appreciation are many though.

So to me, I don't think it is a factor. It might be interesting from an anecdotal or logical standpoint but it's not an investment driver for me or a factor in deciding what to buy.

 

Very interesting! 6k miles or even 4k miles in an Enzo is realistically a couple of years worth motoring, so I don't think that is unreasonable to replace the clutch. Who would you get to do the work? By the sounds of it, it has been done already. On multiple cars?

 

We do our own work in the US and Italy.

Basically using an SD3 computer you can adjust the shift pressure and shift time within the Ferrari computers that control the shifting.

Changing to a manual is a lot more work and is something we could do in Italy. If you want to pursue that pm me and I'll put you in touch. As an aside we're also looking into converting an Enzo to RHD for a customer and believe that can be done as well. Our Head Engineer was head of the division of PF that did all of the special work for the Sultan of Brunei.

 

LOL, no, I have no reason to doubt you. But...

...yeah, I know, it's a weird hobby.

 

I appreciate the thoughtful response and didn't look to imply that you (or anyone, for that matter) are not entitled to an opinion. I just thought the opinion harsh.

I've been fortunate enough to drive many of the cars you listed, and there certainly have been growing pains. That being said, Ferrari pushing forward in new ways is part of their appeal.

I always find it interesting when an older model outpaces the market for a newer version. The 550 Barchetta is riding on the heels of the SuperAmerica, the 993 Turbos v. 996 Turbos (and eventually the 997s). My personal favorite in the F-car line so far has been the F50, but the car generally seems underappreciated. I think one of the other posters made a good point that we all fall in love with the car that came around a certain point in our lives. To each their own.

 

Fantastic, noteworthy post!

 

So you dont need to update any hardware?

 

To speed up shifts?

Nope.

To run 6:51 at The Ring?

Yes

 

Hey, we all like different stuff and that is cool. Nothing pleases me more than to see an Enzo (or something similar) to drive past at speed, so I am glad there are enough people out there who can't think of a good reason not to buy one. But please, make no mistake. I would dearly love one, how can you not. It is a fantastically over the top machine, a slice of Italian exuberance. Very welcome. I have to say though, one can only have so many of these cars. Those of that do or have had - are the fortunate ones and on that note I will admit that part of me is almost relieved to find fault with a car like that. I can focus on that and try and persuade myself not start agonising over how to pay for it (and what to sell to pay for it)! For that reason, I can be unduly harsh sometimes as it suits my spending restraints of the time. Having said all that, partly tongue in cheek, I wouldn't be able to resist the car if it's gearbox was equal to that of the Scuderia for instance.

 

Nope, just estimating the current and future selling price. My point was low mileage F40s are about 2X MSRP and they made 1,200. So 2X MSRP for a low mileage Enzo seems like a good deal. 10 years from now you might see Enzos at 3X MSRP. People don't consider inflation when they price used cars. If they did we would all be in trouble.

 

I imagine having to plug the F70 in overnight or the batteries wearing out. That helps me to not agonize over it.

 

Thanks for the replies guys!
I didn't think inflation was that important but was an interesting idea.
As to Bill's original point, the F40 has done pretty well considering the high production numbers and it will be interesting to see how the enzo does. I really like the Enzo and I hope the prices drop a ton so I can maybe afford one in the future- sorry Bill, I'm sure you hope the opposite happens!

 

I'm good with that. Then I might be able buy another for spare parts.

 

So they're that unreliable?

(also wanting to talk down the price )

 

Battery life on all of these will be an interesting issue. The battery pack in our car is a 80K euro unit. Not only do you have to keep it charged all the time you also don't want to let it get too cold ever. The life isn't that long either. Our system is VERY quick charge/discharge/lightweight so the road systems may last a bit longer and there may be relatively more of them. I suspect much of the weight of the 918 is due to longer life batteries and redundancy. Porsche is testing 23 918 mules to make sure the 918 works in road conditions over a reasonable length of time. Once again these are VERY complex and expensive systems and it will be interesting to see how the dealers do keeping them going and repairing them over time. Personally I wouldn't leave a KERS system car sitting unused for too long even under charge as these batteries also have to be exercised. You can develop a charger to also exercise them but for a road car that has to ready to go anytime this is another issue.

 

For lithium polymer cells the ideal short term storage voltage is 3.7-4v per cell in a cold environment (not freezing). For long term storage, 3.85v/cell and 32-45 deg F. Keeping the cells charged all the time significantly harms cell life and cell performance.

I never charge to more than 95% or discharge below 20% capacity. I store at approx. 3.85v, and fast charge (up to 10C i.e < 6 minutes from 20% to 95%) just prior to use. I use them for Pattern Aerobatic, 3D, and ducted fan Jet electric model plane flight.

Personally, in a car, I would want a system where the cells can be ejected quickly on the off chance they go into thermal runaway. Fire extinguishers are useless as the cells release oxygen on breakdown, fuelling any fire.

There are far more stable chemistry&#8217;s such as A123 lithium phosphate cells. These have a lower energy density, but the advantage is the much more stable Iron Phosphate based cathode, as opposed to the Cobalt Oxide based Li-po cathode.
.

 

The chargers we use are designed to automatically follow the manufactures recomendations to maximise performance and life.

Keep in mind we charge and discharge MUCH faster than you are. As an aside the Output we can run at is thermally limited and must be VERY carefully monitored. We have systems as I assume P1/918/F70 will to imediately shut down KERS if these temperatures are exceeded or very serious meltdown fires will occur and there is no way you can do anything but bail quickly.

We worked with the FIA and race organisers to make these systems race safe.

 

Yes. All production Ferrari's are unreliable when you beat on them. I guess that's what makes them special.

 

Yep. Something I don't mind worrying about in my everyday LEAF, Volt,Tesla, or Fisker. But not my weekend/track/show supercar. LEAF has a 220V quick charger and the batteries don't cost $100K USD.

 

I have a suspicion that when this new car is eventually released, Enzo demand will start to creep up. First, I think that the looks are growing on those who initally thought they were ugly and secondly, I think that the relatively straightforward technology and known running costs will attact many people. I've been wrong before. I could be wrong on this - but I don't think so.