Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Not to be too offensive, but I personally think using "4" instead of "for" looks stupid. Or at least childish.

I thought it was revs. Remember that power includes TIME in the units (F/s). So if you have a motor that makes x torque at 1000 rpms, if you can keep the same torque at 10,000 rpm, you will make 10 times the power.

The torque is ultimately limited by displacement; gas burning makes creates an expansive force. The better you are at harnessing it, the more torque per liter, but there is a limit. So then it is just revs for more power.

 

Im not sure a 599XX is lighter than P1. IIRC, it weighs 3200 pounds.

 

Little chance of the 599XX being lighter or having more power or more downforce.

599XX = 3,350 lbs
Downforce @ 124 mph = 617 lbs
700 hp

599XX EVO = 3,277 lbs
Downforce @ 124 mph = 970 lbs
750 hp

P1 - predicted weight sub-3000 lbs
Downforce @ 124 mph = 1320 lbs (able to be bled off with DRS control)
~900hp (admittedly a guess at this point)

Lap time likely very tire dependent on the P1 as obviously the 599XX EVO will be on slicks in the dry. Ferrari predicted a 13 second improvement over the standard 599XX's 6:58 time for the EVO around the 'Ring. I think Napolis' guesses are sound based on what the world knows today.

>8^)
ER

 

Now you got me thinking, which I am told is very dangerous.

My 1.6 liter Pinto based Formula Ford motor makes about 110 hp and redlines at 6700. It's pretty stock, a push rod motor.
A Formula B motor uses the same block with 1.6 L but a twin cam head and it makes close to 200 hp, or about 125 hp/ L.
A Formula Atlantic motor uses the same block again, but now twin cam with 4 valve head and a lot of trick stuff, makes about 250 hp or 155 hp/L. I think they turn to 9 grand or so, but they sure don't have the longevity of a road car engine, even a supercar.

Take that FA motor and keep everything the same but increase the displacement to 2.4 L. Now it makes about 375 hp. And then double the revs, up toward F1 range: 750 hp. I think that is fascinating....

 

I hope that you realise that an 18k RPM, F1 type engine would need a rebuild every 2000 miles or so. Also the average owner would not be able to drive it as the peaky nature would make it a monster and most of the times would stall it in traffic. Also you would need an F1 crew every place you went. Finally, F1 engines are so temperamental that they require their oil to be poured into them warm, before firing them up!!!

As for this thread, I doubt that we will see actual track numbers any times soon. No F70 or P1 owner would take the risk. Well, JK or Nick Mason might, but not at a very serious level I reckon.

 

P1 is most probably gonna be tested there by the factory... Regarding the F70 it will probably be a very long time to wait for it's Nring times, as even the 599 GTO wan't driven there yet.

 

ER,
do you know whether the 1320 lbs of downforce claimed for the P1 are at 124 mph?
I'd expect it's at 150 mph like the claim for the MP4-12C.

 

Nice read...
Point 1.. There is apsolutly no mention of Balance of Performance in the regulations...
Point 2. The BoP is left entierly up to the race organizers, AKA ADAC VLN
Point 3. And my reasoning from the begining, There is apsolutly no reason why a V12 engined hybrind can;t be competitive, since all the cars are BoP-ed and their performace is greatly influenced by it, And under the things that are BoP-ed is the Fuel tank capacity.
http://www.24h-rennen.de/uploads/media/Balance_of_Performance_24h_2012_01.pdf
some get 90l some get 125 etc.. So I ask again why would a V12 hybrid be handicaped, when all the performance of all the cars is governed by BoP..

 

Well, I don´t know, but I suppose that bigger fuel consumption means bigger tank and also bigger weight.

Agree that in the end everything depends on the good will of the organizers and how they deal with the balance of perfomance.

 

Been looking a bit on the cars..

With the 918 Porsche have created the best looking car in their history. What a sexy machine.

McLaren have with the P1 created the ugliest piece of dung thry could come up with. Makes the already dull and uninspiring MP4-12C look like a piece of art.

I have hopes that Ferrari will make something even more sexy with the "F70". A car that we will all remember forever.
I don't think the McL will be anything we look up to like the F1 was/is.

 

weight is also controled by BoP, so they could give you 10l more and let you take out 10kg out of the minmum weigh limit, etc, etc...

 

The bigger the fuel tank the longer time it takes to fill in the pits which adds to pit stop times.

The bigger the fuel tank the more the car weighs as racing weight is measured without fuel.

The bigger the fuel tank the more ullage is created as it drains down effecting handling over the stint.



V = A x C
100 (1+Et)

Where

V = Volume of liquid to be loaded (gallons or litres)
C = Capacity of tank (gallons or litres)
A = Fill percentage required
E = Cubical expansion co-efficient of liquid
t = Rise in temperature of fuel during stint

 

A: Easily remedied through BoP via the re-fuel flow limiter, Exacly as it;s done in the FIA/ACO/ALMS for the corvette which has a larger one then the rest of the field...

B: doesn;t matter how it is measured, its controled via BoP so weight is eaisly remadied through it...

C: I'll gice you that, but the effect is minor as compared to everything else, and can easily be corrected with other BoP options for a single lap speed...Including but not limited to...
Lowering the weight-better handeling,braking, cornering etc, etc...
Increasing the height of the spoiler-better handeling, braking cornering, etc... any many more options...

Seriosly I don't get the argument here..

You race in a series where the rules clearly state that development is unimportant. the only thing that is important is that the car looks pretty, BoP handles the rest....

If the frikinn BMW Z4 or a Merc SLR, or Audi R8s can whipe the floor with your experimental hybrid prototype, there is something seriously wrong if you think that a F70 would be at an disadvantage.. The whole point of GT3 (which the VLN is more or less based on) is to allow any car to race against any other through an equal BoP..

*Now how equal the BoP actually is depends a lot on how much money you will bring to the sport, as witnessed by Audi's and Merc obvious BoP-ed advantage over everything else..

 

In the carbon P1 looks a lot different and is a lot smaller than
you'd think it would from photos. It's pretty cool in a Techno
way.

Around a track it will be a monster.

 

Several reports out of Paris indicated that figure was at 125mph. Here's one:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/26/mclaren-p1-supercar-paris-walkround/

AutoExpress quoted it at 150 mph:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mclaren/p1/60526/mclaren-p1-paris-2012

McLaren's official press release reads "600kg of downforce at well below maximum speed." so we may be waiting till Geneva to confirm what is correct.

>8^)
ER

 

I have no doubt about that I was just referring to the design itself from the three cars.

Maybe it will be different to look at in real life and improve a bit. I just think the 918 is extremely beautiful and the teasers of the Ferrari look very promising already

 

The folks from McLaren say the P1 develops around 600 pounds of downforce.

How much downforce will the F70 generate ??

Can they achieve the same number, if not more, without using a rear wing ???

 

Looking at all it takes the 599XX to develop less, it seems doubtful.

>8^)
ER

 

The P1 generates 600 kilos of downforce. 1320 lbs.

 

I was in New York today to visit P1. It is stunning in person to
say the least. As Jim points out a very technical presentation.
This is a design study in aerodynamics. Loved it.

 

The P1 looks sick...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100263893

 

Lambo, Anyone?

I know we have had extensive discussions about Ferrari, Porsche and McL on track.

I am wondering about the Lambos on track. I have driven a few, not the Aventador. Other than ground clearance problems, do they have brake overheating, suspension issues, etc. Can they be driven for any length of time in anger?

 

The Lambo engineers at The Ring told me that the Aventador in road trim couldn't handle more than a few laps.

VERY few road cars as delivered can do more than a few Ring laps flat out.

 

What is the limiting factor? Overheating the engine? Brakes? Tires?

Assuming fuel was the limiting factor... How many laps could an Aventador complete at 100% before needing to stop for fuel?

 

Brakes.