turbo musings

I don't have much to add technically speaking, but I love your idea and wonder why more folks don't think like you. So many F40s are just garage queens because of the driveability aspect.

 

I'm guessing you would need to make a lot of changes for that to work smoothly.

I would just leave it as is and add a newer turbocharged car if that's what interests you.

 

I have no clue about the ECU on the F40. Turbo technology has come a LONG way since the early 90's. Billet wheels, ball bearings, different types of cooling. All for the better. It all depends on what power your looking for. Their will certainly be better options for similar hp with better spool. You might be able to piggyback an ECU to use stock perimeters and use the piggyback to add boost and fuel past the stock settings. If I had a F40 I would look at this turbo. Billet wheel makes up to 430hp per turbo, it would be more then enough turbo to really turn the boost up.

 

check out the borg warner EFR series. A few guys I know that use them won't stop raving about it. Outright power VS a similar sized turbo is about the same if not a little higher, but they come onto boost much, much quicker. Some of the people that use them had latest generation similar sized turbos on there, apparently the difference really is night and day!

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo.html

 

I don't believe the Variable Vane Technology has gone much further. Will also be a PITA to map.

 

I don't think that's why there are so many garage queen F40s. I think that it's more the collectability aspect and people are afraid of hurting their "investment."

Personally speaking, I don't think that these are great cars when they sit so and so mine has over 25k on the odo as I drive it regularly.

 

Turbo technology has greatly advanced from the 90s to now. I think that they will provide much improved throttle response as well as produce more power from smaller turbos.

Have a look at Garret GTX turbos and Borg Warner EFR turbos. The materials they use as well as the wheel design is much more improved and allows for much more efficient air flow.

In saying this if you went to a more modern turbo then you would obviously need a re-tune as your fueling and timing maps will be out by alot. You could get an aftermarket ECU put into the car and this can controll everything you need, something like a MoTeC would be suited. Cost wise you will be looking at anywhere from 2k AUD for a single turbo, 5k+ AUD for ECU and programming, you would also want to upgrade your exhausts from the turbos to make them more freeflowing to get more hp. It all depends how far you want to go.

But if you arent worried about using non-factory parts then this could be a modification that really transforms the F40..

 

As Sherpa 23 said, MANY F40s are driven I know one that is driven every day. I know of cars with 45,000, 72,000, 93,000 miles etc.

As for the drivability, they are VERY drivable. I used to run errands in some of the ones I owned, just staying off the boost.

 

The F40 uses a pair of weber IAW ECU's, one per bank of cylinders/turbo and these are very adaptable.

I have mentioned before that the same ecu was used in the Ford Cosworth range of cars which in stock form are around 204 bhp and the standard ecu when correctly calibrated can easily handle double that bhp so would be more than capable of being reformatted to meet the needs of alternative turbo's on an F40.

You would also need to evaluate alternative cam timing and compression ratios to suit the needs of any new turbo in order to achieve the optimum performance.

Just swapping out the turbo and recalibrating the ecu wont transform the car, you will gain in one area but lose out in others.

Intercooling is also another key factor, the charge temps need to be kept low, swapping to LM spec coolers would also be a major advantage.

 

Are you still converting a 355 to an F40?

 

On hold at the moment as I am finishing off my house build, hopefully back on it in the spring, but still collecting parts in the meantime.

 

The GTX turbo's are quite large to start off with. Unless you're going for silly power and a stroker, I'd go with a small EFR 6258 or maybe the 6758. A GTX3076 will be awesome though, it'll kick in a bit later, so can still hint at the old skool roots of the car, just coming back on boost will still be much quicker than the old IHI turbos .

 

And what are the odds that after an insane amount of work you end up right where you started

 

Unless the person that's building your engine/mapping it hasn't a clue what he's doing that's very unlikely to happen.

 

I'm not sure its worth it, and I'll tell you why. The F40 is reasonably sophisticated compared to some other eighties cars. I have a few Group B cars where I have spent a fortune tuning, adjusting/modifying and if you like, modernising them somewhat with more modern turbos and management systems. Although there is an improvement in those cars, you have to remember those cars where very raw, uncooth to begin with, and somewhat of a work in progress, so even a small improvement makes a difference here. My F40 by comparison is super civilised by comparison and so I just cannot beiieve you will get the car THAT much better to justify the expense. Not to mention that you will also probably devalue your car by maybe 15% or more(maybe Joe will chime in here). This is same reason I would never send my 959 to Canepa to fidddle with. Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree with this line of thinking.

 

Pretty cool idea...

 

I'll take the car's charm as is. If you are not willing to become competent to drive it you don't deserve it. Get a 458

 

I thought the Canepa 959 were worth a bit more than the stock ones?

 

Well that depends on who you speak with.

 

Why do you say that? Do you know of many modified classic cars that command higher prices than unmolested original cars? The only reason that may seem to be the case is because you are not comparing like for like. Remember in the US Bruce Canepa has been the main market force with respect to these cars as he has been doing most of the importing. There have not been that many non Canepa cars that have come onto the market in the US in the last few years and when they do come up they are usually higher mileage more used cars than the Canepa cars and so therefore this will reflect the price. Now that the cars are 25 years plus and do not require EPA/DOT certification, you will find more private individuals importing these rather than just Canepa and when you do find comparable low mileage, unmolested cars, similar to the mileage of Canepa cars, you will find the value of the Canepa cars will be lower. Just like with any Fcar or other collectors, 959 collectors will undoubtedly prefer their cars original. I am certain of this.

 

The last time I checked, Canepa's business was not on the list of Registered Importers, so he wasn't the one doing the importing.

Greg A

 

Well there's no one in the US who has been involved in selling/modifying more 959's than Bruce. So call it what you will.....

 

I have heard of 'LM' turbo upgrades for the F40, I know this means F40 LM but are these kits readily available and are they a genuine Ferrari part?