P3 P3/4 412P Gearboxes

As part of the P Car gearboxes and spares we acquired we also got all the gearbox race set up sheets with ratio's used at The Targa Florio, Le Mans and other races. This has enabled us to shorten the ratio's in 0846 for the road as with her mechanical FI she really has to rev to produce torque. The ratios in 0854 which are as last raced at Brands Hatch work well with her carburetored engine.
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What carbs are those?

 

412P Webers

 

Jim,

The first gearbox shown is different than the ones mounted on the engines, which gearbox is the silver one?

 

412P Webers? Is that what Weber designated those beauties as? What size chokes?

 

Wow!! I would love to hear more details about this acqusition "in general" without all the gory details so to speak lol. Great pics Mr.G thanks for sharing.

 

The silver one is P3 Tipo 593. It raced at Le Mans in 1966 in 0846 where it dnf'd due to gear box failure. You can see the Le Mans scrutinizing stamps and the repaired damage to the case. In December of 66 it was used as a mule when 0846 was converted to a P 3/4. It's P3 inboard brakes were replaced with outboard P4 style brakes and uprights (603). Before 0846 raced at Daytona where it finished 1 OA it's P3/muled gearbox was replaced by a P4 Tipo gearbox (603) which basically had a bigger case which held more oil and somewhat beefier innards although many parts are interchangeable. 0854 was built originally as a 412P (P3 chassis/P4 gearbox and suspension/P3 wheelbase/ P4 outboard brakes but with a P3 motor with Webers (not Lucas mechanical FI which was both P3/P4).
0846's P3 Lucas Mechanical FI was re used on 0846's new 1967 P4 motor when Ferrari turned her from a P3 to a P 3/4)

Off the top of my head I'm not sure of the 412 Weber model # but will look.

 

Basically Ferrari sold off surplus parts and also gave parts to workers in lieu of overtime. These workers passed away and left them to their sons who now work on some of our cars in Modena and felt I was the one wind up with them.

Our P 4/5 C engineers crunched the data sheets and made a program for us where we can figure out gear ratio's at shift points. In the day they went up to 8500rpm. We try to keep it below 7500rpm as this stuff is very, very rare.

 

That was very kind and generous of them and I am certain it means alot to you.

 

Karma works both ways for sure...

 

According to Ferrari Six Weber 40 DCN/15.

http://www.ferrari.com/english/gt_sport%20cars/classiche/all_models/Pages/412_P.aspx

 

While the carb designation on that page may be correct not everything is. The wheelbase for example. P3/412P wheel bases are 2412mm. (Confirmed by build sheets and physical measurement). P4 wheelbase is 2400mm.

 

Stating the obvious but wrong pictures too with those of the Can Am conversion being displayed.

 

Ferrari has played with the truth many times. Here's a photo of 0856 in the factory painted as a clone of 0846 just before they sold her as "The Daytona Winner" which she wasn't. I have an original photo that David Clarke took when he got the car with it's "history" written on the back including the drivers who drove it at Daytona in 67.
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Which car do Ferrari say was the one that came second, car number 6 driven by Chris Amon and Jackie Stewart, at the '67 BOAC 500, #0858 or #0860?

 

Also it's wrong to say that 4 litres is as large as Ferarri ever went in developing its Sports Prototypes. There were the 4.4 litres of the 365P and 365P2.

http://www.ferrari.com/english/gt_sport%20cars/classiche/all_models/Pages/330_P2.aspx

 

There was a lot of revisionist history when they tried to austion off 350 Can Am 0858 at the last RM factory sale.

I do know that 0858's Spyder tail is the one that blew off and was damaged as that spyder tail with clear evidence of post Brands hatch repairs was incorrectly fitted to 0854 when I bought it and is now fitted to 0846. 0854 now has her original correct coupe body.

 

Great pics, but I have to say looking into that empty engine bay I do wonder how those few skinny tubes can support the engine let alone the car. Has anyone ever measured the torsional stiffness of one of these cars? Can you feel any flex in the chassis when you are driving it?

 

It feels pretty good even on a track but of course nothing like a modern race car.

 

Very beautiful photos and Great collection of course.! Thanks for sharing.

 

So did Ferrari claim at the auction that it was 0858 that came 2nd? Most of the information out there claims it to be 0860, as I know you are aware. Picture by Geoffrey Goddard.
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You're forgetting that the engine and gearbox are actually bolted solid to the frame and act to stiffen the rear sections considerably. While not much of the rear frame is triangulated, once the engine and gearbox are bolted in the back end is going to be a lot stiffer than it looks empty.

While these cars weren't as stiff as the Fords or the Chaparral, they weren't considered bad handling cars by all accounts. As I recall they held their own on the infield at Daytona. The Fords were just a lot faster down the straights, and that's what gave them their advantage.

 

Napolis would I be right in assuming that these cars would have been set up pretty soft in the suspension to compensate for the lack of stiffness in the chassis?

 

In the day these were raced on regular roads a lot more than today (Le Mans/Targa Florio)
so generally yes.

 

jim, do you have a shot of one of the synchros?