The 458 is great. Period. It's great because it's a total package of engine, gearbox, and suspension precisely put together to create an amazingly quick, exhilarating, and precise driving experience. It's designed to give you the feeling and sensation of a modern racing machine for the street. This is what great race car engineering teams do -- they make a great package. Ferrari has always made a great package based on the technology of the TIME. It's not in their nature to stop moving forward. Putting a manual box in this car is like taking 2 cylinders out of it just to make it slower. It's not its purpose. It's purpose to go faster with more precision and control while generating more thrills and chills when driving it. There's like 250 thousand Ferrari's out there with manual boxes. If you want a manual box F car, go buy one of them. Just leave those of us who like the 458 for what it is --- and what it is not-- alone. Now, I love 3 pedal cars. They are quaint and they are fun. So are Pinball machines but people today like killing alien robots on their Xbox better. Manual boxes are not for today's world. They are for yesterday's world like drum brakes and hand crank starters. There. The end. People can stop the whining now and move on (but we know they won't).
I think the difference is that with the 360 and F430, you still had a choice. With the 458, you don't. It's more relevant here.
If manual gear boxes were better than Formula 1 and IRL racing would still be using them! Dual clutch transmissions are just plain better! I grew up with manual transmissions and for many years all the best sports cars had them, but time has moved on and now the best sports cars have dual clutch transmissions. Oh, and for you Porsche lovers, I bet the next iteration of the GT2 will no longer have a manual transmission.
I wrote elsewhere: If you accept that premise, then driving a Ferrari is mostly about entertainment. Viewed as entertainment, ultimate speed matters less than the driving experience. If the speed and precision of a DCT transmission is what entertains you, great! That's exactly how a 458 is configured. But if what entertains you is the greater driver involvement of a 3 pedal manual, then you must look elsewhere. To me, that is a shame, but I completely understand Ferrari's decision. I will note, however, that despite Porsche being viewed as cold and technical, they seem to understand the entertainment factor and offer a 7 speed traditional 3 pedal transmission in their newest (and best) 911. I think it would be great to have the great chassis and engine of a 458 along with a 3 pedal transmission. But that's just me whining.
I agree it's like asking Ferrari to bring back the cassette player option because of emotional attachment. Ferrari does not view manual tranny as something that adds to the performance of the car hence why they don't offer to produce it as an option.
fully agree with all you wrote here, but I still really prefer the superfast 2 gearbox vs the dual clutch one.I know, there's a lot of advantages with the newer dual clutch transmission but as I am an "old school heel-toe driver" I really miss the entire single clutch architecture...and the amazing "kick in the back" feeling when you drive a Scuderia or a 599 GTO.( you get that kick also with F430 of course)
I love Ferrari's approach. "Leave the building of cars to us and we will leave the buying of cars to you." If Ferrari was to make a 458 manual the company's reputation would suffer.
Flappy paddles have their place However when I go to my garage and pick a car for a fun ride in the mountains it's never the 458 It's always a manual tranny I'm amazed at how well people swallow cool aid Frankly I often find the 458 boring On the track it's Phenominal In traffic it's a blessing to a weary back Other than that I choose one of the manual cars I'd love a sequential manual. To me it's the best of both worlds (like in my 2012 Porsche Cup car) If I could have but one car-it would never be one with paddles To each his own but to attack someone who loves a manual trans is ridiculous. Many of us would love the looks and tech mated to a 6 speed. Expression of opinion is whining? When we can afford a car of this caliber it's certainly within right to state your gearbox preference
I guess what confuses me about this thread is the absolute position it takes as its premise. I don't think the three pedal guys are asking for a stick only. They are not saying a dual clutch should be banned - they just want a choice. Would the 458 be a lesser car if there was a choice? Most agree with the factory that the forged wheels are better, so we buy them. But we are not forced to buy them. And who was whining, anyway?
You don't want to be left alone. You want to argue with people who respond to this topic that you started stating that you don't want to hear about this topic. I almost took the bait and started to discuss our recent test drive of a California where we thought how much more fun it would be with a stick, and then about different bikes on the track and since I am not being paid to shave seconds off my times I found bikes without quickshifters more fun... blah blah blah... and realized it matters not a whit if we find different things fun or if some people lament Ferrari no longer making manual cars and others being bothered by it. Your spider is gorgeous. I have never driven a 458. I bet it is an absolute ton of fun. Enjoy it a lot in 2013!
Totally untrue. Every week someone posts in some section how they lament Ferrari no longer makes manual boxes. Then, the usual suspects tell the rest of us how we are wimpy or don't know how to drive a car or what makes a good car. I'm just being pro-active for once. It's time we stop apologizing and being defensive and start proclaiming what the purpose of this car is. The constant whining is boring already -- and it's going to go on for another 10 years. My point is the 458 is a package designed for a purpose. And, yes --- like taking the smile off the Mona Lisa, it's not as good as the original is by simply removing it.
You don't need to defend the car. You can put the top down and go screaming into the desert laughing maniacally. What a magical thing that must be.
And while we are at it, let's bring back: - hand crank windows - spark advance levers - hand crank engine starts - vacuum driven windshield wipers - carburator choke pulls Oh yeah, and let's bring back programming computers in binary or having to toggle in a boot sequence on your computer's front panel (i can explain that one later to those who don't know what that was). These lists of older solutions and technologies (remember when you were a kid and someone was good in math and science? Now they are good in math and science and technology) exist in all sorts of arenas. For those who want to enjoy prior solutions, there are usually ways to do it. It is kind of cool to drive an old car and have to do double shifts, but let's leave it for cars of the era when it was appropriate. I used to be a snob when it came to automatic slush box vs. manual transmissions, but got over it. Finally figured out it made more sense to drive the family sedan or station wagon with an automatic. I agree with the OP. The 458 is a complete package of best of breed modern features. It would make no sense to change it. I also agree that is is getting old listening to folks who want to attack the demise of gear rowing in modern sports cars, while demeaning those who are happy with dual clutch trannys. If you want a three pedal car, buy one, drive it, and enjoy it. There are lots around, from all sorts of eras and marques.
I give it five years tops before the manual option is gone with all manufacturers. So the whining will stop sooner than you think. Manual is indeed outdated and headed for the history books. But unfortunately so are naturally aspirated engines. As far as the 458, it would be nice if it were 20% cheaper, and there were less speed cameras, fewer speed bumps and less traffic where I live.
Ah, the old "new technology is best" vs. "nostalgia is best" argument. Never settled and won't be here either. But it is fun for a New Years Day.
The (new) 991 Cup Car will come with....a PDK with paddles. Having said that, I think there is a big difference between stating a desire and preference, and how a manual box drives your experience (which is completely legit) and "whining".
Does anyone know how many manuals vs paddles were sold to 360 and later 430 buyers? Was their a declining production of manual cars? Technology and "sales" drive the market place. I, for one, enjoy "choice", at the same time see no need to criticize change (not sure about progress), including the 458 as well as others like the 997 Porsche Turbo PDK, faster than any manual could hope to be. Does not negate my enjoyment of shifting with a "stick" every now and then. An example of available obsolecence is the abacus? Any one reading this ever see let alone use one? Would you be surprised to learn you can still purchase them? For those who have no idea what am speaking of, just Google Abacus, and enjoy the passing (gradually dissipating) freedom of choice. Best
Manual and Auto-manual driving experiences are very different. Each have their advantages and we all know what they are. I still contend that for those who genuinely enjoy using a clutch and shifter, an automatic (auto-manual or otherwise) can never be a complete and total substitute. Ideally, I believe many drivers would want both experiences, if possible. Some converts may say something like..."no I wouldn't, the dct is it, period". Then, IMHO, you never truly liked driving a manual, you merely tolerated it so you could drive these kinds of cars. Of course, if age or injury are a factor when choosing a dct, that's something else. I know and agree that Ferrari must stay at the forefront of sports and race car technology, and that means dct's over manuals. But, when times change, even for the better, some good things are often lost and never fully replaced.
The DCT is more manual than the stick. Paddles require you to use both hands to shift gears, while the stick only requires one.
As Ferrari has always said; " Ferrari is in the business of going fast", the dual clutch allows Ferrari to be the fastest in its class. The third peddle is a thing of the past at Ferrari!
Wrong! Have a look at GT2 cars racing in Le Mans ... kind of sad, that most people don't know that a double clutch has nothing to do with 2 or 3 peddle!!! Have a look at Porsche, used/invented the double clutch for Le Mans in the 80's, there cars had the third peddle and double clutch!
